Same sex marriage

[Gestalt]

ship captian

Also 300th post MUTHERBUKERZ

[Scourge]

What two people who share a bed do to eachother when the lights go out is nobody else's damn business.

End of Story.

[Geo Stelar]

Care to elaborate on this point?; I'd like to hear your logic on the issue.

Like I said, it as my personal opinion. I don't hate gay-to-man or lesbian-to-woman marriage but I don't like the idea at all. I agree with Icy, he probably mentioned it all:

I don't agree with same-sex marriage/relationships, etc. I don't go around saying "ban it!!!" because it's not my place. I can't make someone understand why [i believe] it's wrong, so there's no point to going around doing that.

I am disgusted with all the people who do go around protesting it without foundation. However I am also disgusted by all the people going around promoting it, but I understand, they want the same rights everyone else [is supposed to have] has. I understand they don't understand why [i believe] it's wrong. And hey, they can't really do much about it. It's how they are.

So I just ignore it. Let people do what they want. I can't make anyone see why [i believe, once again] it's wrong.

I have my reasons for believing it is wrong. I'm a Christian, yes. Go ahead and judge me as another of those stupid idiots who go around loudly protesting and making a fool of themselves. I'm not, but feel free to think so because I don't expect you to not, since I believe what I stated above… and usually people who believe that are like those people I mentioned above)

One last thing, forget the Bible and all that. I like to think of it this way.

How are people born? How are we all here today? How are even all the homosexual people alive today? Usually [alright, always] from a man and a woman. Can two men have a baby? Erm… no. Two women?

So… what if everyone was gay? I guess we'd go extinct.

That proves nothing, of course. But still, if you think about it, doesn't it just seem like, a man and a woman are supposed to be together? Not two people of the same sex?

I dunno, that's just me.

Now lastly, I actually understand that two people of the same sex can love each other. It's nice and I'm sure they're happy just as a man and a woman are happy, but I still believe it is wrong. *shrug*

I, too, just ignore it. I was just saying I don't agree with it.

(But Geo does have a way of ticking some people off with his original post in his counter-point topics)

( )

[thunderflare]

I honestly don't have a problem with gay or lesbian people, have not met anyone like that before that I know of. I don't get what the big deal is they're still human, and In my opinion god loves them just the same as anyone else. I also don't like the words gay, lesbian, or straight the words just seem like a way to put someone down, couldn't you just use the word companion or something. I think marriage should be legal for one reason, so everyone has their rights. If two people love each other why shouldn't they be able to get married even if they're gay it's none of our business what their doing.

[Fana McCloud]

Like I said, it as my personal opinion.

Then pardon me for asking, but what was the point of starting this topic if not to debate the issue? If your opinion isn't based on something logical that can be reasoned against there's nothing to discuss and it just becomes a string of people stating their feelings - which is perfectly fine but I thought the purpose of the counter-point was to debate things.

[Gestalt]

What two people who share a bed do to eachother when the lights go out is nobody else's damn business. End of Story.

The question here is if they should share the same priviledges and rights that heterosexual couples are granted under union such as a marriage license...Not if they should be together

Notice: i am not taking sides...just keeping the train on the tracks

[sroberson]

The question here is if they should share the same priviledges and rights that heterosexual couples are granted under union such as a marriage license...Not if they should be together

Notice: i am not taking sides...just keeping the train on the tracks

Point taken, but many of the people who argue that homosexual marriage shouldn't be allowed take the religious 'high-ground' in their arguments and thus suggesting that homosexual relations are bad in general. So, it is kind of related to the discussion but slightly off topic at the same time. But it does still beg the question, "What makes homosexuals morally wrong?" Since that seems to be the only argument people throw around to try and block the whole discussion. Following an ancient and contradictory book written about events that the writers themselves are known to have never experienced in any way.

[Fana McCloud]

Yeah, the whole "morally wrong" argument would turn into a debate on the validity of religion very fast, which as far as I can tell has no real conclusion. After all, there's no way to prove there isn't an invisible dude in the sky who wants people to act a certain way (including not be gay). There's no way to prove there IS one either. XD

[Dublinthefox]

I don’t have a problem with gay or lesbian people, because I don’t judge people by their sexual orientation. If a same sex-couple wanna get married, I say it should be up to them.

[sroberson]

Yeah, the whole "morally wrong" argument would turn into a debate on the validity of religion very fast, which as far as I can tell has no real conclusion. After all, there's no way to prove there isn't an invisible dude in the sky who wants people to act a certain way (including not be gay). There's no way to prove there IS one either. XD

Another great point, I am glad someone caught that possible issue with debating the existence of religion lol. I just can't help but laugh at little at the realization that you don't need religion to "marry". Governments can wed people and have nothing to do with churches or God. I will take another jab at religion and then call it quits since it doesn't completely pertain to the topic...But it just seems rather horrible that instead of religions allowing people to decide for themselves what is acceptable or 'good', they have to lobby the government, raise outrage among the citizens and shove their beliefs down the throats of everyone else as they amass a voter base and conservative block in congress/senate. The same free will that God gave to Adam and Eve and to the rest of mankind to prove that he really loved them doesn't seem to translate very well. Makes one wonder a little if our leaders are truly acting in the image of Christ by taking away a citizens ability to choose for themselves.

[Geo Stelar]

Then pardon me for asking, but what was the point of starting this topic if not to debate the issue? If your opinion isn't based on something logical that can be reasoned against there's nothing to discuss and it just becomes a string of people stating their feelings - which is perfectly fine but I thought the purpose of the counter-point was to debate things.

I know that which is why I mentioned that Icy mentioned it all in one post. I am a Christian, I think two men or two women being married just seem wrong, but I ignore it because I don't wanna interfere with anyone's lives just because I think they're doing it wrong.

[Vy'drach]

To be fair, there are several churches, religious figures and whatnot that have no issues with same sex marriages, just as there are some churches that not only are willing to accept evolution as a possibility, but admit it is most likely what happened, and have versions of the bible that don't basically say that a Tyrannosaurus Rex didn't fit on the boat, so it drowned.

Now I'm going to use up my poke at religion time, mostly for the lulz.

This one I'm NSFWing for language.

NSFW WARNING

As far as the actual debate, everything has been said, really, unless one wants to keep riding religion.

[LoneWolf]

Whilst your poke at Christianity is easily argued, I don't think I'm going to. This topic is about gay marriage, not why Christianity is good/bad.

[OneUnder]

Let's keep this on topic you guys, I'm sure someone will find some sort of discussion value that hasn't been added yet, .

[Geo Stelar]

Let's keep this on topic you guys, I'm sure someone will find some sort of discussion value that hasn't been added yet, .

I sure hope so, but I think everyone who has posted has added every discussion value regarding thetopic; some input that love should be respected, even a same-sex one, some (or was that just, 'Icy'?) have input that he doesn't agree with the idea, whether you consider his being a Christian or not. But I maybe wrong.

and then...

What two people who share a bed do to eachother when the lights go out is nobody else's damn business.

End of Story.

That is alright but also questionable regarding the topic. I don't know if I understood your post right, but in response, I'll say that a large percentage of STD's in my country are caused by male-to-male "interactions in bed", as I might put.

Edited May 13, 2012 by Geo Stelar

[Fana McCloud]

Yeah, but STDs are a risk to anyone, it's just that there are certain realities that make the risk higher in male homosexual relationships. But anyone, gay or straight or otherwise, has the responsibility to inform their partner of any STD they might have but also to accept the risk that their partner might be hiding an STD from them. Beyond that, it really is nobody else's business. I dunno what kind of point you were trying to make by pointing that out exactly.

[Redeemer]

The reason of "two men/two women can't have babies" is stupid. We heteros are the ones having the gay babies in the first place.

And FYI, the rate of HIV is equal between the sexes. You just hear about it more with gay men because of stigma and media brewing things for people to get mad at.

[LoneWolf]

That is alright but also questionable regarding the topic. I don't know if I understood your post right, but in response, I'll say that a large percentage of STD's in my country are caused by male-to-male "interactions in bed", as I might put.

You know what, though, sticking your dong unprotected in any hole, regardless of gender puts you at risk for STDs. That's just how it is.

Also, somehow people think that gay marriage = gay sex. You realize they can have premarital relations. Marriage has nothing to do with it. But that's their concern and their private life, and if that's what they want to do, then who are we to say what they can and can't enjoy.

The REAL problem with gay marriage is that people don't want to give homosexual couples the same legal rights and benefits as heterosexual couples. People don't see homosexual couples on the same level, therefore they don't want to provide them the benefits of a marriage license.

[Fana McCloud]

And FYI, the rate of HIV is equal between the sexes. You just hear about it more with gay men because of stigma and media brewing things for people to get mad at.

Actually that's incorrect - men who have sex with other men have much higher transmission rates (at least in the US): http://www.aids.gov/...iew/statistics/

Just under HALF of all people in the US living with HIV are in that category - that means that proportionally much more of that group contracts AIDS than heterosexuals or even lesbians.

[Redeemer]

Ah, I was going by UK statistics. XD

[Fana McCloud]

Ah, I was going by UK statistics. XD

Wow - that makes me curious as to why. Perhaps it's because the UK has universal health care run by the state, thus STD prevention is far more accessible and has less stigma attached. Would certainly make sense.

[sroberson]

My bets are on the UK statistics being the more trustworthy. There is always something that bothers me about the discrepancy between American statistics reporting and other countries, especially since our news media and sponsors of research like to engage in fear mongering and manipulating of public mentality. It would only make sense for our (American) statistics to try and reflect the negative aspects of homosexual relations.

*puts tin foil hat on*

["User"]

My bets are on the UK statistics being the more trustworthy. There is always something that bothers me about the discrepancy between American statistics reporting and other countries, especially since our news media and sponsors of research like to engage in fear mongering and manipulating of public mentality. It would only make sense for our (American) statistics to try and reflect the negative aspects of homosexual relations.

*puts tin foil hat on*

I'm highly doubtful that is the case because the media is generally more left winged then right winged (with the exception of Fox News) and thus more supportive of stuff like this. I was also curious as to Redeemers claim as well, because if you ask any doctor or look up any scientific study pertaining to STD transmission rates most every single one says that homosexual pairings have higher rates of transmission. Canada has universal health care as well and the % rates are roughly the same as it is in the U.S.

[Arashikage]

Okay, so it's time to add my inevitable two cents.

Personally, I don't agree with the gay/lesbian society and their beliefs. That being said, I don't believe people should take away their rights as humans. I am a Christian yes, however, what others do behind closed doors with their SO, whether they be same sex or different sex is none of my business. In fact, there are gay and lesbian Christians.

Now from the standpoint of my religion, and this is just me talking, my pastor probably doesn't think the same way on this issue, God loves everyone. He gave us a way to Heaven, if someone believes in that way, and trusts in Jesus, it shouldn't matter who they are together with. In the Old Testament, it was said that a man shouldn't lay with another man, however, after the Old Testament, when Jesus came down to Earth, new rules were implemented. Most of the Old Testament had become obsolete, now it's still in the Christian bible because there should be some kind of backstory, a historical overview as told by the bible from the viewpoints of the central characters of the different books.

However, in the New Testament, nothing at all was said about gay people. If you look at all of Jesus' teachings, you won't find a single word spoken about gay people or lesbians.

And now time for a funny and very relevant picture:

["User"]

However, in the New Testament, nothing at all was said about gay people. If you look at all of Jesus' teachings, you won't find a single word spoken about gay people or lesbians.

The apostle Paul had much to say on the subject. The new testament is not entirely on Jesus' teachings, in fact roughly half of the new testament was composed of letters written by Paul. Furthermore not all the old testament laws and teachings just go down the drain - a lot of what was taught back then is still relevant today.