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Would you support this game being a reboot like Mortal Kombat 9?


Giladen

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  • 1 month later...

Why should Miyamoto and Co. cling to the past games beyond the SNES games and Lylat Wars (to play it safe)? It worked for Mortal Kombat 9.

 

It looks like if Star Fox is going to get back on track then it has to ditch and/or revamp as much as it can of what's in at least half the games.

Even Adventures and Assault sold really well, as they both became Player's Choice games. I don't think Star Fox really needs to get back on track and play it safe per-say, just that it needs a decent game to come out with a big budget behind it on a console rather than what we've been getting (remake on handheld and a terrible and weak handheld game)

 

As for the problems with rebooting goes, the series has already been rebooted once (SF64 decanonizing the SNES games), and I fear that a reboot would alienate some fans who have been following the current canon. Its not THAT much of a big deal as long as the game made is good to be honest, though if I'm right the Devil May Cry reboot didn't work out so well...

 

My disdain with the idea of a reboot isn't helped by the fact that I adore Assault's everything and was disappointed by(but still like!) 64. Killing off the events of Assault and going back to a post 64 state would be ignoring the game I most love.

 

SF 64 was a reboot anyway. Remember the first Star Fox and the Itoh comics?

 

Not to mention Ocarina of Time, which while not called a reboot, took its series in another direction that has both OOT and a bunch of the games after it not fitting with the games before OOT.

How does Ocarina of Time not fit with the games before OoT? OoT is part of one of the timelines. You still travel around and explore a large world collecting items that are necessary to get farther in other dungeons and parts of Hyrule while playing a green garbed character fighting with a sword and shield.

 

 

 

I would not only support a reboot, I'd go to the length of recommending it. Star Fox, as it currently stands, has terrible characterization, plotholes that are more common than reaction photos on SF-O, and generally needs some help. The games have, at the very least, a halfway decent frame upon which to build.  The proper building isn't present in what we've seen from the series, however. Are characters said to have certain traits or personalities because it is observable, or is it because the game told you that they were that way without demonstrating it in a meaningful, consistent way? Is a certain conflict fleshed out and multifaceted, or is it one-sided and basic at best?  There are undeniable issues, and a reboot would hopefully work to alleviate some of these problems.

Couldn't those problems be fixed without the need for a reboot? Couldn't the next game work with what's already canon and just add actually decent characterization to make those personalities Nintendo wants to convey really come out? Couldn't they just put more effort into a game plot? And couldn't such be done without having to interrupt the current game's narrative to repair mistakes made to past parts of the series? Perhaps a subtle way that wouldn't hurt the game that could fix some of the series' current problems could be found?

Assault killed/fucked up Andrew, Pigma, and General Pepper. 

How'd it screw up General Pepper? Sure you don't mean Peppy?

Why do we need Pigma and Andrew to keep existing as they once were anyways?

While I don't know if its true or not, so correct me if I'm wrong, I heard that Pigma "dies" a lot in multiple Star Fox games before making a return later on.

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Couldn't those problems be fixed without the need for a reboot? Couldn't the next game work with what's already canon and just add actually decent characterization to make those personalities Nintendo wants to convey really come out?

 

No, because "what's already canon" is muddled and they will have to cut or completely ignore previous actions of these characters. They'll have to sacrifice something and it'll still appear inconsistent to go in yet another different direction as part of the same timeline.

 

 

And couldn't such be done without having to interrupt the current game's narrative to repair mistakes made to past parts of the series?

 

No, unless you really think a game comprised entirely of flashbacks sounds like a super fun time. Stuff happened between games, before games, concurrently with games, all that shit needs to be explained. So either flashback city or a huge nasty dump of exposition, which will please no one.

 

 

Perhaps a subtle way that wouldn't hurt the game that could fix some of the series' current problems could be found?

 

There is nothing subtle about the problems in the game, there will be nothing subtle about fixing them.

 

 

How'd it screw up General Pepper? Sure you don't mean Peppy?

 

So did you actually forget about Pepper being near-fatally possessed by the Aparoids and forced out of service due to the physical toll it took on him? He was effectively written out of the series because of what happened to him. 

 

And why do we need Pigma and Andrew to keep existing as they once were anyways?

 

Because they're good fucking characters that were killed off/made obsolete before they could actually do anything worthwhile?

 

 

And I heard that Pigma "dies" a lot in multiple Star Fox games. I don't know whether or not that's true of course, so feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Dude post-Assault Pigma is a giant floating space cube, that isn't exactly good character progression or one the series can recover from.

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Even Adventures and Assault sold really well, as they both became Player's Choice games.

 

Compare this:

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_GameCube_video_games

 

With these:

 

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Super_Nintendo_Entertainment_System_video_games

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_best-selling_Nintendo_64_video_games

 

Star Fox's sales have been downward.

 

Its not THAT much of a big deal as long as the game made is good to be honest, though if I'm right the Devil May Cry reboot didn't work out so well...

 

Except:

 

1. Devil May Cry wasn't in Star Fox's position. Devil May Cry 4 is currently the best selling game in its series.

 

2. Tammy Boy is a unprofessional tool who went out of his way to pick fights with portions of the fanbase.

 

How does Ocarina of Time not fit with the games before OoT? OoT is part of one of the timelines. You still travel around and explore a large world collecting items that are necessary to get farther in other dungeons and parts of Hyrule while playing a green garbed character fighting with a sword and shield.

 

OoT contradicts both ALttP's backstory and what's shown ingame. Be it the Sages having only 2 Hylians, Ganon having the full Triforce in ALttP and yet he fails to to get it in OoT, etc.

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Star Fox's sales have been downward.

Looking at raw sales numbers without context ignores fluctuations in hardware sales and release timing. See my post in Dras' link for a thorough explanation.

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Star Fox is one of the few Nintendo franchises where story is not only important, but it's one that the developers know(or at least knew) about its importance. Not many Nintendo series actually have character development that progressives through each game. If you strip SF64 of all the character, you'd still have damn fine gameplay, but all the charm would be missing.

 

If they decided to reboot Star Fox, they would definitley keep the wacky dialogue, but you'd be getting rid of all the character development. A lot of people just want SF64 all over again, and that includes reverting back to that game's cast. By cutting, say, Krystal, you'd also be getting rid of what has become a central part of Fox's character. In Star Fox, you have really cool stuff like revisiting Sauria in Assault and meeting Tricky again, but that would be meaningless if you simply erase it. Remember how cool it was to see Falco pull a Han Solo at the end of Adventures after leaving the team? I liked Falco a lot more after seeing that, so I sure as hell don't want to see that go.

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1. So many Star Fox characters don't have any character development. Having an inconsistent characterization isn't character development (see Wolf, who goes from a lowlife mercenary to a Criminal Who Doesn't Do Anything).

 

2. Fox barely interacted with Krystal in Adventures and has some flirty dialogue with her in Assault. Outside of Command, you're stretching it if you say Krystal is such a major part of Fox's character that she can't be retooled or axed.

 

3. Want to me bring up Andross hijacking General Scales? Krystal's lack of a backstory? Or her random ass magic?

 

Star Fox's current continuity isn't any better than Mortal Kombat's before MK9 rebooted it. And you know what? It was rebooted.

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Krock, you seem to be under the strangest impression that future Star Fox games would not feature character development and that a reboot would literally wipe all games from existence, never to be played again. A reboot would not necessarily erase Krystal, Tricky, Panther or whoever from existence, but it could re-introduce them in ways that made sense and weren't just plain fucking offensive like Krystal was--something that is apparently direly needed since you seem to think of her as an extension of Fox's character rather than a character unto herself. That aside, there has been no development to erase, you're mistaking inconsistent, bad writing with development. The characters have had completely different personalities between games and none of that can be traced to specific events in their development, it's just inconsistent handling of them while expecting us to buy that these are all the same people in the same timeline. Very few, if any of their actions have even been justified. Yeah Falco coming back was cool, too bad he ran off for no reason to begin with and was completely absent for 99% of the game.

 

Rebooting doesn't magically mean there will somehow be no writing ever and no potential for charming moments or character development. It's actually the exact opposite; a well-written Star Fox game that can tastefully rebuild the series from the ground up will have better potential for longevity and memorable characterization.

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Star Fox is one of the few Nintendo franchises where story is not only important, but it's one that the developers know(or at least knew) about its importance.

Seriously, have you been playing the same games I have? The Star Fox canon is full of plot holes and inconsistencies with an actual LACK of character development. A reboot would be the best thing to happen to this lousy excuse for a canon.

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I also want a well-written Star Fox game, but I don't see why a reboot would be required for that to happen. I'd say it's lazier to erase an entire continuity for the sake of having a good story when you could still make a good story fit in with the whole series. It's more fun to try to piece together the parts of an admittedly shitty canon than it is to ignore everything outright. Let's not forget we're talking about a series about talking animals in space here.

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Well, I've explained several times why a reboot would fix it, and no it isn't lazy whatsoever since you're basically re-establishing an entire universe and cast of characters with solid new arcs while trying to hit the sweet spot of appeal for new and old fans. You can't "make a good story fit in with the whole series" because the series as it is seems to be made of swiss cheese, nothing fits with it, not even itself. It isn't, at all, "more fun" to go back and root through someone else's garbage in the hope that you might find something useful.

 

It being a game about talking animals also isn't a good reason to halfass everything. More than anything it's condescending to imply that something targeted at a younger audience should be expected to have lower overall quality.

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Look, if an arcade styled Star Fox is out of the question, then Star Fox needs a major overhaul if it's going to be taken seriously as a franchise. And when it comes to that, why stick with the current continuity?

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A reboot?  Sure, why not.  None of the continuities are worth sparing a reboot from.

 

That said it be cool if the new game could start off after 64.

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  • 5 weeks later...

I don't see what would be the pro of putting a reboot after 64 instead of starting over from the beginning. Again, I point to MK9 which through time travel started back in MK1. Not that I support SF having time travel.

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I personally don't want them to do a reboot. I would be happy for them to either continue after 64, or continue after Assault.

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So in other words SF Wii U will pretend at least one of the games didn't happen either way. If that's the case, then I don't see a con to going all the way and starting over from the beginning. Explain to me what's so great about the current continuity that it can't be ditched seeing as how there's inconsistent characterizations, visuals, etc. The games were designed by separate teams with separate directions for the series and it shows.

 

Again, if a "conventional" SF is out of the question, then the series will need a major overhaul to be taken seriously as a franchise. Sorry, but I doubt things like an entire planet of primitive prehistoric creatures with magic being in the same universe as talking animals in spaceships is going to fly nowadays.

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Post-64 reboot works because 64 is pretty much the simplest, easiest, bare-bones groundwork for the series in terms of the world and characters. There's nothing super complicated happening plot or character wise in it, so it gives us a good taste and preview of who these characters are in what world without giving us the headache of a plot or development right out of the gate. Following games can build off that in the way that the original post-64 games failed to.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I sincerely hope it is not a reboot. Imo, the current Star Fox cannon is amazing; I like all of the Star Fox games for a reason, SF for SNES had amazing music, amazing gameplay (especially for it's time) and was the first game in my favorite series; SF 64 had a great story, great gameplay mechanics, and again, amazing music; Adventures expanded on the Star Fox Universe, and done a good job of it as well; Assault had beautiful music, improved the story by expanding the universe even more, and had great vehcle models, and Command... well... Command had good music... I guess, but it butchered the story.

That said, if we can get a Star Fox game that continues from the end of Assault, and forgets about Command, I'll be happy, as I love the story the way it is :)

(remember, this is all imo, so don't start raging at me)

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I just don't want it to be an insanely massive bust. Is that too much to ask?

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I just don't want it to be an insanely massive bust. Is that too much to ask?

 

The fact that we're finally getting another installment is already pushing it. xD

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