Pharaoh Shadon

Starfox SNES Thoughts

Is this game good?  

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Pharaoh Shadon

Sooooo I have quite a bit of thoughts on the starfox series, but not many places for just general thoughts/discussion. Sooooooooo here we go! :D :D :D (My thoughts are gonna be in a kinda review style. Mainly for organization and stuff)

Story- The story that there is a scientist named Andross who was conducting dangerous experiments. After countless warnings by the government he was banished and forgotten. However the corneria army was detecting strange activity at the planet venom and at closer inspection, the planet was seen to have been turned into a military base. It turns out that Andross went to venom to create his army and cast war against the Lylat system. So team star fox set out to stop the evil of Andross.

 

I think that's a pretty good story. Short and Straight to the point. Granted that probably wont pass this day in age, but for its time it was great.

Gameplay- Gameplay is really slow and sluggish. I know they are prototype arwings and is one of the first ((If not, the first)) game to be in full 3D, but i'm sure they could have made it faster. Especially with its cheap enemy placement and with how much damage enemies can do. It gets REALLY hard to avoid things. But on an upside, the allies are the most useful of any starfox game (Funny how the first game has the best AI), they actually shoot enemies on your screen, Something I don't see often (Or at all) in the series future installments. 

Graphics- Nintendo found a way to turn sprites into 3D objects and that is what this game was all about. So graphically its not good looking BUT system technicality its amazing. So I will give it a pass because of the context. And I am sure that any more detail would have added allot of framerate issues (I think there were a few framerate issues as it was, but it was very minor)

Music- Pretty good but forgettable. At least for me.


Complaints-
You go really slowly and its hard to avoid things. Enemies also come from the side of the screen so you cant do much to avoid it.

Enemies do too much damage, especially for how bad the controls are.

The space armada boss was really cryptic. I just used 4 bombs to destroy it as I really didn't know where the weak points were. I assumed it was the things on the wall but I could never get a good shot.

I cant tell if the game has allot of spelling errors or if its the puns from characters being animals.

There is a massive difficulty spike at the second to last level.

Wants in the game-
Faster control and better aiming. And all of the complaints issues to be fixed.


who is it recommended for- Hard to say, I guess major starfox fans for collection only. If you're new to starfox or want to play a game before the gamecube ones, get the N64 version, its also easier to find (From my experience anyway)

Rating- 9/10
The game feels slow but the idea behind the game was for the 3D thing. Many say this game is the reason why we have 3D in the first place. I think we would have gotten 3D eventually, but who knows what gaming would look like if it wasn't for this game making 3D a thing so early.

 

Added thoughts- Now you're probably wondering why there isn't much said about this game. I mean it was the first, and I could probably say more about mario bros 1. Well it is because this game is VERY short. Basically 6 stages with 3 paths and basically 2 alternate paths for extra content. The levels are not that long and feels more like a test or demo for 3D gaming. (And with not many games in the series its not like there's a massive history lesson that link back to this game.

 

Sooooooooo what do you all think about this game? Is it good? Is it bad? Is it "meh"? Give your rating in the poll and say your thoughts on the game :D

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Patch93

This game is actually my favorite in the series. I love the soundtrack, atmosphere, level design and the overall fast-paced arcade shmup feel it had similar to games like Gradius and R-Type.

 

I'm disappointed that this game was retconned out of canon as there are a lot of cool aspects that didn't make it into future games like the interstellar life in Sector Y, the Black Hole, the Battle Base Meteor, Venom's Highway, Macbeth's interior, etc.

 

Sure the 3D graphics haven't aged well and the framerate is a bit jarring but once you look past those, you have a really solid game on your hands.

 

Even if you've played 64, I would still highly recommend playing this if you can look past its flaws. I give it a 9.2/10.

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Vixette

This one is probably my favorite, or at least tied with 64. I really love the atmosphere, music, level and enemy design, pretty much everything except the sluggish controls, but I feel that the enemy design was done well enough to accommodate for the controls being muddy. I think the graphics are beautiful too. As evidenced by the unending popularity of 8-bit and 16-bit art in games, low graphical fidelity is a style in and of itself and I think Star Fox had a great aesthetic. Andross' boss form has never been better-looking or more intimidating than he was in that game IMHO!

 

The levels are shorter and there are only three total paths, but somehow that never bothered me when I was a kid. I was only skilled enough to play the first path, and I did it over, and over, and over, and somehow never lost interest . . . I was unable to meaningfully attempt the other paths until I was an adult. Did I mention that this game is HARD? 'Cuz damn. The levels themselves are mostly OK but many of the bosses are totally brutal. Or at least I think so. But even on Hard Mode 64 isn't even close to being as hard as this game. IMHO the only challenge in 64 was getting medals but in SNES the challenge was not dying!

 

Oh and the music was amazing. I was so mad when I saw that they had changed the Star Fox theme in the 64 game. I thought this game had a really fantastic theme and I have no idea why they dropped it.

 

So yeah I think it is a crying shame that this game has not only been retconned out but is forgotten by seemingly everyone including Nintendo. Still not available on VC. I'm hoping they'll do it when the Wii U game comes, or maybe even include it with that game.

 

But then again I am so absurdly nostalgic about this game that perhaps my opinion can't be trusted, haha. :)

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InfinitySquared

Star Fox for the SNES has this lovely '90s retro-futuristic vibe to it. The '90s dance-inspired soundtrack mixed with big orchestral scores, the system chugging and giving 110% to give you those Money-For-Nothin' level graphics, and the whole exoticness of it all. It reminds me of this movie theater I used to go to as a kid where the lobby was dark and lit by neon lights. To a 5 year old in the early 2000s, that shit was like a spaceship (I later found out that the reason why it was kept so dark was to hide all the grime on the floor. Ew). Star Fox 64 has it, but not nearly to the extent of the original. It just kinda gives me this fuzzy feeling of hope of the future, that things can only get better from here. Games from the late 2000s-now just don't have that, at least for this cynical bastard. 

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hirobo2

The original SNES music was composed by Hajime Hirasawa, who left Nintendo after working on StarFox for the SNES.  They got Koji Kondo to do the soundtrack for SF64.  If anyone doesn't know who Koji Kondo is, he's the guy that came up with the snazzy Super Mario theme and also the Zelda theme on the NES.  Anyways, there was a clash of interest, which I'll explain shortly, which is why Kondo was give the job of composing the score for SF64.

Now, about the clash of interested, you notice the NES aimed for mostly mature gamers what with contents like the original SMB and Contra, etc.  It was not long Nintendo figured out an unfilled niche market and shifted their priority there.  Nintendo figured out their brand was synonymous with Disney, ie. one parents could trust their kids to own b/c their content were family oriented and restricted, while mature contents appeared mostly on other systems like Sega.  So, starting with the SNES, Nintendo active targetted an audience of elementary school children.  Anybody who says SMW, Yoshi's Island, Mario Paint etc. aren't meant for little kids have got to be kiddin' me.

So, where does all of that fit into StarFox?  They essentially took a title for teens and young adults (StarFox for the SNES) and made a "kiddified" N64 remake to target elementary school children, which then became Nintendo's primary focus and niche in the market.  Hajime Hirasawa wasn't the right man for the N64 remake.  They wanted more cutesy "Star Wars prequels" type stuff, which Koji Kondo is famous for.  I mean com'on, this is the man who perfected nursery-type music for pre-schoolers in Yoshi's Island that we're talking about here! 

So, that is the reason why the N64 is so bad for those of us who have fond memories of Star Fox on the SNES --  they weren't exactly the target audience in the N64 version.  Just like the fans of the original SW trilogy weren't exactly the target audience of the prequel trilogy.  We're talking music that only a preschooler could appreciate.  Models that had been "dumbed down" from the SNES version (anyone who says its equivalent in the N64 is better than SNES's Rock Crusher has got to be kidding me --- that enemy boss with the rotating shield that can flip over is just so lame compared to the Rock Crusher, and the creature that ensnared Slippy's arwing is also so lame compared to the bird boss on one of StarFox's planetary levels in the SNES).  Levels that had been dumbed down to appeal to "younglings".  And an Andross Boss that was also very lame and not very intimidating compared to the SNES version. 

In short, I really hated the N64 version b/c it happened during a time where Nintendo shifted their revenue model to have little kids naggin their parents for a new Nintendo console or game b/c they were the only one in the market that catered to little kids and had mostly family oriented contents --- and the games they made suffered for it.  The SNES version was the best I've ever played so far in the franchise.  But it looks like the SFZ could be a close distant second.

 

Edited by hirobo2

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Robert Monroe

 

the 

NES

 aimed for mostly mature gamers what with contents like the original SMB

 a title for teens and young adults (StarFox for the SNES) and made a "kiddified" N64 remake to target elementary school children

 

You know by this point I've seen so many shitposts I can't even tell what's REAL anymore. Yeah yeah everyone's entitled to their own opinion and all that fuck, but if you're seriously trying to tell me Super fuckin' Mario Brothers was aimed at "mature gamers" then you "gotta be kidding me". SNES Starfox wasn't "mature", SNES Starfox was barely a thing in game - sure there was supplemental material in the comics.... which were stupid and cheesy as hell... but in game it was WHOA FUCKING POLYGONS EXIST IMAGINE THAT.

 

 

Edited by Robert Monroe

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Drasiana

I am sorry Nintendo ruined your grimdark space marine Adults Only mature world of space animals by apparently going back in time to wipe it clean from existence, because there was actually never a time in this current lived-in timeline where that could in any way accurately describe a Star Fox game, sorry

latest?cb=20100329023449

Edited by Drasiana
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ArwingFan

I love both games; but 64 wins out imo for the mission complete/accomplish system, more complex levels, smoother gameplay and the lovable dialog.  

It's close and there are things I like better in the SNES Star Fox.

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DZComposer

Hajime Hirasawa only did the music for two games in his entire video game music career: Time Twist, a Japan-only NES game, and Star Fox. He was gone even before Star Fox 2 was developed (Kozue Ishikawa and Yumiko Kanki jointly scored SF2).

Hajime Hirasawa wasn't the right man for the N64 remake.  They wanted more cutesy "Star Wars prequels" type stuff, which Koji Kondo is famous for.

Uhm, you do realize that both the original Star Wars trilogy and the Prequels both were scored by John Williams, right? And that no one hates the music from the prequels, only the story, the acting, and the directing? Also, Koji Kondo has a lot more in common with John Williams than Hajime Hirasawa and has had a far more successful game music career. I mean, he only wrote some of the most famous and memorable video game themes in history. Koji Kondo is a thematic composer. He excels at creating memorable melodies. That's why he's the most well-known video game composer. It's the same reason people love John Williams.

Also, the vast majority of Star Fox 64's music was not even written by Koji Kondo. Koji Kondo only wrote the game's main theme, the mission complete and accomplished music, and the credits music. The rest of the score was written by Hajime Wakai.      

We're talking music that only a preschooler could appreciate.

Let me guess, if you can't dance to it at a rave, it's music for toddlers, right?

There's a lot to appreciate about Star Fox 64's score:

The very first level, Corneria, throws a BGM at you that's in 6/4 time, an uncommon time signature. It also builds in complexity from a few syncopated notes at the beginning to a full march by the climax all held together by a set of light ostinatos that are present throughout.

Meteo is a 3/4 march, once again based on syncopation and an ostinato bassline. It's an aggressive and driving march, and is one of the best cues in the game.

Sector Y/Solar is another driving piece with a nice buildup and chord progression.

Aquas is an epic choral work that is woefully held back by the crap samples available at the time.

Zoness is hands-down the best piece in the game. It is Hajime Wakai at his finest. 3/4 time, Dissonant chords: 9ths, minor 7ths, diminished, etc. The whole thing is in a minor key and builds from a simple electric piano sound at the beginning to an epic full-orchestra climax. All-in-all, it is great string writing. It's a shame this piece is lesser-known. It's easily a top contender for best piece in the whole series.

The Landmaster Theme is another driving and aggressive march, this time in 6/8 time.

Star Wolf's theme is another great piece. It's got a great melody, and many great backing parts and shows some of Hajime Wakai's best Horn writing (which he also brings forward in his score for Star Fox Command).

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

Edited by DZComposer
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Xidphel

Hajime Hirasawa only did the music for two games in his entire video game music career: Time Twist, a Japan-only NES game, and Star Fox. He was gone even before Star Fox 2 was developed (Kozue Ishikawa and Yumiko Kanki jointly scored SF2).

 

Uhm, you do realize that both the original Star Wars trilogy and the Prequels both were scored by John Williams, right? And that no one hates the music from the prequels, only the story, the acting, and the directing? Also, Koji Kondo has a lot more in common with John Williams than Hajime Hirasawa and has had a far more successful game music career. I mean, he only wrote some of the most famous and memorable video game themes in history. Koji Kondo is a thematic composer. He excels at creating memorable melodies. That's why he's the most well-known video game composer. It's the same reason people love John Williams.

Also, the vast majority of Star Fox 64's music was not even written by Koji Kondo. Koji Kondo only wrote the game's main theme, the mission complete and accomplished music, and the credits music. The rest of the score was written by Hajime Wakai.      

 

Let me guess, if you can't dance to it at a rave, it's music for toddlers, right?

There's a lot to appreciate about Star Fox 64's score:

The very first level, Corneria, throws a BGM at you that's in 6/4 time, an uncommon time signature. It also builds in complexity from a few syncopated notes at the beginning to a full march by the climax all held together by a set of light ostinatos that are present throughout.

Meteo is a 3/4 march, once again based on syncopation and an ostinato bassline. It's an aggressive and driving march, and is one of the best cues in the game.

Sector Y/Solar is another driving piece with a nice buildup and chord progression.

Aquas is an epic choral work that is woefully held back by the crap samples available at the time.

Zoness is hands-down the best piece in the game. It is Hajime Wakai at his finest. 3/4 time, Dissonant chords: 9ths, minor 7ths, diminished, etc. The whole thing is in a minor key and builds from a simple electric piano sound at the beginning to an epic full-orchestra climax. All-in-all, it is great string writing. It's a shame this piece is lesser-known. It's easily a top contender for best piece in the whole series.

The Landmaster Theme is another driving and aggressive march, this time in 6/8 time.

Star Wolf's theme is another great piece. It's got a great melody, and many great backing parts and shows some of Hajime Wakai's best Horn writing (which he also brings forward in his score for Star Fox Command).

I could go on, but I think I've made my point.

50 Scores of Grey material there, DZ! Well done!

Edited by Xidphel

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hirobo2

Hajime Hirasawa only did the music for two games in his entire video game music career: Time Twist, a Japan-only NES game, and Star Fox. He was gone even before Star Fox 2 was developed (Kozue Ishikawa and Yumiko Kanki jointly scored SF2).

I dunno, stay with Big N and work on the sequels that tanked the franchise or go form your own music company, which one did you think was the better choice Hajime Hirasawa would have made in hind sight?  If I was the man, I wouldn't want my life's work to be credited/associated with synthetic beeps and boops anyways, when I could instead compose music with real instruments for TV studios and such. 

Btw I'm quite surprised some1 would go into such great lengths to analyze video game music of all things.  VGM ain't art.  The likes of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith are where real music resides.  Koji Kondo et al may have composed great music for Mario/Zelda (though personally I can't say the same of SF64), but they'll never become legends like the former artists not even if they lived to 200 years and spent the next century orchestrating Super Mario Galaxy 1234, or StarFox Twenty.

Much the same way Joe Hisaishi doesn't want to be associated with Ghibli but rather just happens to compose music for them b/c after-all cartoons are 4 kids.  In this respect I'm quite glad Hajime Hirasawa moved on from Big N after working on the SNES.  I'm pretty sure some day, I'll stumble upon his album of greatest hits over the last few decades and they won't have anything to do with vid games...

 

Edited by hirobo2

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Xortberg

VGM ain't art.  

b/c after-all cartoons are 4 kids.

Opinion: discarded 

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Drasiana

I dunno, stay with Big N and work on the sequels that tanked the franchise or go form your own music company, which one did you think was the better choice Hajime Hirasawa would have made in hind sight?  If I was the man, I wouldn't want my life's work to be credited/associated with synthetic beeps and boops anyways, when I could instead compose music with real instruments for TV studios and such. 

lmfao

"After completing his work on Star Fox in 1992, Hirasawa quit Nintendo to found Faith Inc., a music company that got its start working on MIDI music."

also lol if you think most television shows use real actual full orchestras for their soundtracks

Btw I'm quite surprised some1 would go into such great lengths to analyze video game music of all things.  VGM ain't art.  The likes of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith are where real music resides.

what part of this sentence is supposed to actually mean anything other than just being some pseudointellectual posturing of objective superiority within a subjective medium

Much the same way Joe Hisaishi doesn't want to be associated with Ghibli but rather just happens to compose music for them b/c after-all cartoons are 4 kids.

Monono.gif

Grave-of-the-Firelies-poster.jpg

miyazaki.jpg

ok

e: also source pls because i've found literally nothing about hisaishi disowning himself from his ghibli work, he seems glowingly enthusiastic about all of it

 

 In this respect I'm quite glad Hajime Hirasawa moved on from Big N after working on the SNES.  I'm pretty sure some day, I'll stumble upon his album of greatest hits over the last few decades and they won't have anything to do with vid games...

yeah an album including his greatest hits like

 

Edited by Drasiana
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Vy'drach

Miyazaki stuffs

Don't forget that the entirety of Spirited Away was actually about girls being forced into bath houses that were really brothels. Or that cartoons started specifically for adults and some of those early cartoons have stuff that we wouldn't dare put on television now (and I don't mean racism). And just a final nail in the coffin on the silly notion that cartoons are for kids, and when I use the term cartoon when referring to anime I do this:

 

hwiJbB1.gif

 

But anyways, hentai. It's anime. It's definitely not for kids. Depending on what happens it may not even be legal in some places.

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Jeroscope

First off, damn you Dras for reminding me of Grave of the Fireflies. That movie (while really good) made me incredibly depressed.

But I will say this: Hajime Hirasawa's musical score was probably my favorite of all of the Star Fox games. The reason why is simply because of three songs: Space Armada, Corneria, and the Main theme. Corneria was your starting music. You were launched straight into battle as the last line of defense against Andross, and the music has you pumped and exploding with energy with it's classic rock "Highway to the Danger Zone" vibe to it. Space Armada felt like the clash of the two fleets, the turning point of the war as you blast through enemy battleships and waves of fighters.

However, the Main Theme is my favorite piece of music. Ever. Of all time. I have actually lost friends in debates over this piece. It's a piece the symbolizes the parts of a space opera in my opinion. It's got heroism, honor, pride, and even romance mixed in.

HOWEVER, Koji Kondo's music was awesome as well. Some of my favorite tunes are Star Wolf, Fichina, and Area 6.

Was SNES Star Fox more "mature" than 64? Um... No. Don't exactly know how you'd get that from animals flying in space. But the vibe was certainly different.

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Drasiana

Don't forget that the entirety of Spirited Away was actually about girls being forced into bath houses that were really brothels.

This is actually explicitly untrue and is just a popular internet edgelord theory (not to mention it directly contradicts some of the actual deep and moving themes within the movie). Here's what Miyazaki has to say on what Spirited Away is really about.

Even that being said, the fact that the movie was written for kids doesn't magically diminish any of its artistry and I'm not sure why people have such a problem with accepting that intelligent, moving stories can totally be packaged for and appreciated by kids. Hell, the first time I saw Spirited Away I was in its intended demographic (10 year old girls) and the reasons I love the movie to this day remain largely the same - even if I just have a better understanding of those themes now. I didn't need to don a fedora and a pair of creepypasta goggles to justify its merit.

 

 

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Vy'drach

This is actually explicitly untrue and is just a popular internet edgelord theory (not to mention it directly contradicts some of the actual deep and moving themes within the movie). Here's what Miyazaki has to say on what Spirited Away is really about.

Even that being said, the fact that the movie was written for kids doesn't magically diminish any of its artistry and I'm not sure why people have such a problem with accepting that intelligent, moving stories can totally be packaged for and appreciated by kids. Hell, the first time I saw Spirited Away I was in its intended demographic (10 year old girls) and the reasons I love the movie to this day remain largely the same - even if I just have a better understanding of those themes now. I didn't need to don a fedora and a pair of creepypasta goggles to justify its merit.

 

 

9l9uti2.png

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DZComposer

 

I dunno, stay with Big N and work on the sequels that tanked the franchise or go form your own music company, which one did you think was the better choice Hajime Hirasawa would have made in hind sight?  If I was the man, I wouldn't want my life's work to be credited/associated with synthetic beeps and boops anyways, when I could instead compose music with real instruments for TV studios and such.

Hindsight has no bearing on anyone's reason for leaving a job. You leave a job for reasons relevant at the time. Also, your reasons to not work there are probably not his, so that point is moot.

 

Btw I'm quite surprised some1 would go into such great lengths to analyze video game music of all things.  VGM ain't art.

 

I appreciate music for how it is written, not who wrote it or where it came from. Chord progressions, meter, melody, and harmony are all present, even in the early NES game music. It is how a composer uses the tools at his disposal to create sounds that make all music, even game music, art.

Discounting music because of its origin shows that you do not have a true appreciation for music.

 

The likes of John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith are where real music resides.  Koji Kondo et al may have composed great music for Mario/Zelda (though personally I can't say the same of SF64), but they'll never become legends like the former artists not even if they lived to 200 years and spent the next century orchestrating Super Mario Galaxy 1234, or StarFox Twenty.

Koji Kondo's work is already well-known even among non-gamers. People KNOW the Super Mario Bros. theme. People KNOW the Zelda theme. Sure, not everyone has heard his entire catalog of works, but them I'm pretty sure you haven't listened to John Williams' Tuba Concerto or the entire NBC News Mission Suite, have you?

Also, you have no clue who is going to be remembered years from now.

 

Much the same way Joe Hisaishi doesn't want to be associated with Ghibli but rather just happens to compose music for them b/c after-all cartoons are 4 kids.  In this respect I'm quite glad Hajime Hirasawa moved on from Big N after working on the SNES.  I'm pretty sure some day, I'll stumble upon his album of greatest hits over the last few decades and they won't have anything to do with vid games...

There are plenty of composers throughout history that have gotten on high-horses and wouldn't want to write music for this or that. So what? That doesn't diminish those who did.

As far as what Hirasawa has been doing, he's been running a company that makes ringtones for phones and his company even did the sound development framework for the PS2. The company continues to work in the video game industry, among other things. EDIT: Looks like the company owns a couple of record labels, too. I would say he's probably more interested in running his company than making a greatest hits album.

Edited by DZComposer
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Fookes

The puppets are creepy... need I say more?

 

Creepy-Fox-Doll-StarFox-Game1.jpg

Edited by Lily

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Xidphel

VGM ain't art

And this is the part where it becomes literally impossible to take any of what you say seriously anymore. 

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Jeroscope

The puppets are creepy... need I say more?

Shigieru Miamoto has had an affinity for puppets since he was a child and wanted to make the characters puppets for the Box Art. That's also why he asked Jim Henson Studios to make and film puppets for the Star Fox reveal at E3. Honestly, I think they have a particular charm to them, and for a first attempt, they were pretty good. So, Congratulations. You might have just harshly criticized one of Nintendo's most beloved creators for his work done almost 20+ years ago without really analyzing it.

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Jeroscope

VGM ain't art. 

HAHAHA NO

Tell that to anyone at Overclock Remix and see the reaction you get.

Note: Can I get an admin to merge these two posts? I'm having trouble copying the quote to the previous one.

Edited by Jeroscope
image didn't rez
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Fookes

Shigieru Miamoto has had an affinity for puppets since he was a child and wanted to make the characters puppets for the Box Art. That's also why he asked Jim Henson Studios to make and film puppets for the Star Fox reveal at E3. Honestly, I think they have a particular charm to them, and for a first attempt, they were pretty good. So, Congratulations. You might have just harshly criticized one of Nintendo's most beloved creators for his work done almost 20+ years ago without really analyzing it.

Sorry... they just creep me out... I don't know why...

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Xortberg

"Look at this thing specifically designed to be creepy. Sure makes that thing designed to be cute/cool/whatever that you find creepy less so, right?"

Like just chill dawg. The puppets creep Lily out, that's fine. It's a valid opinion and neither the reason behind them nor the fact that scarier things exist really do much to challenge that.

Edited by Xortberg
I accidentally a word
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