The VGM Lover

I'm confused about Star Fox Command...

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The VGM Lover

I decided to read about Star Fox Command on Wikipedia, and found reviews that are completely different from what we in general think today about that game.

What exactly unfolded between then now? Why were the reviews so different from the fans? Just for curiosity sake, let's start a new conversation, here on Star Fox Portable!

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Arminius H O Fiddywinks

The gameplay was similar to Star Fox 64 (in a way), and people were a bit happy to see Fox solely in the cockpit of an Arwing. Because before that, there were two meh video games whose core gameplay was on foot combat. Poorly done on foot combat. Remember Assault?

 

I think that everyone at first was excited that a vehicle focused Star Fox game, but were turned off as they kept playing it. The story and multiple endings were the biggest criticisms, and a main reason why the game is now generally disliked.

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The VGM Lover

Oh. Well, that makes sense. Oh well! At least now, people who are also curious can come here to satisfy their curiosity. :lol:

"THE MORE YOU KNOW!"

Edited by amcintyr9998

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fanfictiondreamer

I didn't play the game myself, but I read about it online and the stuff that I have read were atrocious and forgettable. If they took out everything that made the game that way and replaced them with ideas that are actually good while leaving in the others things that were great, the game would improve immensely and it would have actually been truly noteworthy and likable by the fans. 

Edited by fanfictiondreamer
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Mecha-Katt

That game was my nightmare...

I do liked the idea behind it, based a bit on Star Fox 2 and I surprisingly had no problems with the controls. If I only take this, the game wasn't so bad. But then the whole story and character derailing happened..and something just died inside me..

 
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Ori

The thing about Command that makes people here in SFO burn with a passionate rage is that unlike Mass Effect 3, the damage was considerably more thorough and had its ramifications throughout the whole story. ME3 only was blown out of proportion because it's a large franchise and the community ensured the circlejerk. While I'll admit I use the "Happy Ending Mod" to give me some satisfaction, everything behind the scene with The Catalyst/Star Child is considerably agreeable both in gameplay, story and graphics for most of the time, so the trilogy is literally 99% good and most if not all the content in the third game is salvageable up until the very finale scene.

The other and actual main gripe is the mountain of DLC required to get any good progress but that's another thing entirely and easily solved via places on the internet.

Command's issue doesn't lie only in the endings that were already out of place and weird: the whole story felt wonky, and everything felt like a huge smear campaign so people would want to forget StarFox even existed.

Bad decisions were up from the start. By StarFox standards even, Krystal was doing as regular as any of the other teammates were in SF Assault, so the kick out of the team was a bad decision already. Introducing what can only be described as fan-characters and bad reskins instead of working on what's already present made things awkward and it was considerably a lot of things to handle, which Q-Games clearly didn't do very well. Art direction was weird on the least but tolerable if it was the only problem. The story had taken an... interesting direction in Assault by having a more reminiscent setting of a space opera, but failed to stand out in originality and ended up as a wishful love letter to classic fiction. Command took any good elements from that and made it a depressive quest that made most fanfiction seem to have some sort of standard over it (because honestly, most do). It tried to be serious except it didn't, it tried to have depth except it didn't, it tried to have some meaning except it didn't. And the multiple ending mechanic made it all worse. You see, multiple endings need to work within a certain range to keep canon continuity if any other game is ever to be worked later in the same universe/timeline without the need of a retcon or reboot. Even the Control/Synthesis/Destroy debacle worked within a considerably small space by leaving some factors untouched for the time being, hence we have ME: Andromeda announced there. Apparently it follows the events of the trilogy by a far stretch of time and far out in space, so it goes for show that the events ending the third weren't exactly lore-shattering.

Why I'm comparing Command with ME3 so much is simple though: they may have been targeted at entirely different game genres and publics, but it was still a story-based, choice-influenced science fiction game. The similarities may be few after that, but in one, the decisions have ramifications ever since the first, reputation changes over the world of the game, and other choice elements at least feel like they have considerable weight. In the other, choices will only lead you to a wreckfest or a lesser wreckfest, making it feel like a lazy, unsupervised and amateur work overall that tried being dramatic for the sake of drama rather than having a reason behind it.

The gameplay was decent but the fuel system just felt entirely misplaced having little to no sense when you could take your sweet time in other games with all-range sequences or even in some rail sequences. The touch controls are something else but it's if anything nitpicking, so not going into the list.

Overall, Command was a bad game for this set of reasons that go beyond only my opinion, possibly more reasons depending on who you ask.

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StarFoxMaster64

When reviewers pick up a game they just play it for 5 minutes and decide without thinking, or wait for the developers and publishers to wave cash saying "rate me well." 

 

However I agree with everyone the big thing was it was well advertised and for a while it felt good to be in the cockpit... But after seeing the first ending I thought... Well basically this video explains my feelings like Adventures...

 

 

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Robert Monroe

Because professional reviewers tend to be shills who are paid off.

 

Furthermore, Command's professional reviews exist more or less in a bubble - noone who gave it those scores really give a shit about the implications of Command's terribadness as it relates to the rest of the franchise. On its own, Command is decently acceptable if flawed as all fucking hell game.

 

The same shit happened with Adventures and Assault - they both got better reviews than they deserved as well.

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AlGore'sleftshoe

The gameplay was similar to Star Fox 64 (in a way), and people were a bit happy to see Fox solely in the cockpit of an Arwing. Because before that, there were two meh video games whose core gameplay was on foot combat. Poorly done on foot combat. Remember Assault?

 

I think that everyone at first was excited that a vehicle focused Star Fox game, but were turned off as they kept playing it. The story and multiple endings were the biggest criticisms, and a main reason why the game is now generally disliked.

The core gameplay element of Assault was the use of vehicles, it was about how you used them, no matter what I did I always spent AT LEAST two thirds of the gameplay either in an Arwing or LandMaster and I always enjoyed that part.

Command was absolute horseshit in every way, the dogfighting was pretty much all the actual gameplay there was, and it sucked, it was clunky, unresponsive, and it pissed me off how you had to use the goddamn touchscreen, and pissed me off infinitely more when I had to use the stupid strategic thing, I like the idea of a StarFox game having a freeroam strategy thing to it, like StarFox 2 did, but Command failed miserably at almost everything it did, there was like one soundtrack that I liked, one ending that was actually pretty cool, and then literally everything else was vomit-quality at best.

And no, Assault gets good reviews because it's GOOD, and if Metacritic is done by just common people and it's average review is good THAN I THINK IT'S FUCKING GOOD. Why else would it have a fairly large number of people who like it?

Edited by AlGore'sleftshoe

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The VGM Lover

When reviewers pick up a game they just play it for 5 minutes and decide without thinking, or wait for the developers and publishers to wave cash saying "rate me well." 

 

Well, I'll tell you this: If I were to become a reviewer, if I were to pick between being a corporate reviewer, or an independent reviewer, I'd pick independent. Obviously, you've been on youtube, so you'll know why.

The same shit happened with Adventures and Assault - they both got better reviews than they deserved as well.

Well, I'll admit, you're right there, but gosh darn that it's true! I REALLY LIKED THAT MUSIC! Graphics, too for adventures... :collapse:

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DZComposer

Gameplay wise, I didn't think it was all that bad, save for the awkward controls. The touchscreen makes for a terrible analog controller.

The biggest issue was the nonsensical story. SFC's story was a complete bloody clusterfuck.

For example, instead of developing Krystal into a decent character, it turned her into that terribad stereotype about the "woman scorned." And retarded retcon attempts like trying to paint Andross as a misunderstood scientist with noble intentions when the entire rest of the canon paints his intentions as self-serving at best if not absolute evil. They didn't even try to hang a lampshade on that who war thing. Hell, they even made Fox bring it up with the only response to it being "..."

One of the things I liked about SFAs' story is how it portrayed Star Wolf. Wolf and his team aren't evil. They're just doing a job. Sure, they don't like Star Fox all that much, but you can tell there is mutual respect. Wolf didn't save Fox because he liked Fox. He saved Fox because he knew that Fox was one of the few who had a chance to stop the Aparoids from destroying everything. When it came down to the end, Wolf bowed-out and let Fox take the glory. SFC comes along and now Star Wolf wants the glory. In one ending, they completely screw Fox out of everything and went on to be the heroes themselves. What the actual fuck? Why? They didn't want bounties, that's why! Because one of the most badass mercenaries in the Lylat system who has his own private army is afraid of having a bounty on his head? Sure...

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Robert Monroe

I actually liked the Andross stuff, but what DID make it retarded was how often the endings contradict the writing in game. Dash learns all this shit about Andross and vows never to be like him - only to end up being exactly like him. To say nothing of the default ending having Fox work to reunite the entire Starfox team only for it to fall apart all over again in the ending, rendering all your efforts wasted.

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AlGore'sleftshoe

UGGH>...no.....MY rage....growing weak......it's all coming back to me now, Command was a slap to the face for me when I was a boy, and it's a slap to the face for me today.

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DZComposer

I actually liked the Andross stuff, but what DID make it retarded was how often the endings contradict the writing in game. Dash learns all this shit about Andross and vows never to be like him - only to end up being exactly like him. To say nothing of the default ending having Fox work to reunite the entire Starfox team only for it to fall apart all over again in the ending, rendering all your efforts wasted.

It's not that I think that a villain must be all bad always. Having Andross having noble intentions would actually better his character. The best villains, after all, are the ones who think they're the good guy. The problem, however, is that Andross was already established as a self-centered character. To retcon the entire villain side of the series canon in a few sentences during an argument between ex-lovers is sloppy and retarded.

Edited by DZComposer
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Robert Monroe

I actually haven't seen the exact dialogue on Andross myself (as my Command copy promptly got lost after I beat the default storyline) so I can't comment more, sadly. I would make an argument that it's a matter of perspective, but if its coming out of the mouths of Fox and Krystal of all people then idk lel.

 

It could also be my love for the SNES canon trying to arc-weld parts of it onto the 64 canon. As well as my own personal interpertation of Andross, where he was self-centered to be sure but benefited the Venomian people with it by giving them advanced technology and stuff (at the expense of them being his personal fuckhuge army of course).

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DZComposer

Here is the relevant conversation:

FOX: So, Krystal? About the secret of Titania?
FOX: If you know something, you need to tell us.
KRYSTAL: ...Fine.
KRYSTAL: A long time ago, Andross started developing a new machine.
KRYSTAL: This device would make Venom a beautiful planet that could support like.
FOX: Venom? Beautiful?
KRYSTAL: Andross was deemed to be a dangerous fanatic and banished from Venom.
KRYSTAL: He was condemned to a life of isolation and loneliness.
FOX: That lousy ape is nothing more than a crazed maniac!
KRYSTAL: You say that because he killed your father.
KRYSTAL: But at that time, he was Corneria's chief science officer.
KRYSTAL: He was also a close colleague of General Pepper.
KRYSTAL: But they were like oil and water. Their infighting was a precursor to war.
FOX: NO! That's a LIE! Andross ignored an order to halt his dangerous experiments!
FOX: He was banished as punishment!
KRYSTAL: His motives were pure, Fox! He just wanted to continue his research.
KRYSTAL: He never asked for money or kickbacks of any kind!
FOX: Yeah? Well if he's so pure, why did we end up going to war?!
KRYSTAL: ...
FALCO: Enough! We don't have time to blad about the past right now!

It's a very weak and sloppy retcon. Also, Krystal was being quite the bitch during this scene so I really don't even know if she was speaking the truth or was trying to get Fox upset. If it is true, it opens up a plot hole big enough to sail the battleship Yamato through.

Edited by DZComposer

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Robert Monroe

I dunno, Command's typical lazy sloppy writing aside I could buy into it. It doesn't really change what happened, just puts details on the story, and it does match up with the SNES comic somewhat (Andross was brilliant, but TOO RISKY, didnt listen to the bosses, got banished). The fact he still went to war over this still paint him as a badguy imo, pure motives don't mean dick when you wage galactic blitzkrieg.

 

That is some cringe as fuck spouse-spatting between Fox and Krystal though lel. Andwhy the fuck is Krystal the one to talk about this? Dash would make more sense... stupid Command.

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Drasiana

Krystal sticking up for Andross for a 2x character development combo while calling Fox out on being a detestable manchild with a one track daddy issues mind makes that a Good Scene imo

yes the dialogue was still bad but an attempt was made which is more than can be said for literally anybody else in the game
Edited by Drasiana

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Robert Monroe

I dunno, Krystal is like the least fitting character for that. Her extent of knowing Andross was shoving her into a gem prison to juice his ressurection magic. Should've been Dash. Or Wolf. Or someone with a tangible connection to Andross.

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Drasiana

Oh, it makes absolutely no mechanical sense (did she meet up with Dash? Did she discover some Secret Files while working for the Cornerians?), but in a more well-explained plot it makes some character sense for her as an outsider looking in at the Lylat Wars with a different perspective that is neither purely FUCK VENOM or FUCK CORNERIA. 

fwiw I'm pretty sure in some of the plotlines, Dash is the one to explain the whole business with the purifier, if I remember right. Krystal also just knows about it for some reason.

Edited by Drasiana

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The VGM Lover

My opinion? That conversation between Fox and Krystal is a waste of time.

Andross WAS a maniac during the Lylat Wars, scolding Fox as he and his team approached him and his planet. Fox had a good reason for saying what he said for what Andross did to him and his father, but he sounded like a baby about it. How old is Fox in this game? And what was he like BEFORE this game?

fwiw I'm pretty sure in some of the plotlines, Dash is the one to explain the whole business with the purifier, if I remember right. Krystal also just knows about it for some reason.

Perhaps Wolf told her this while she was with them and she bought it. Now this pointless argument is happening. 

"Enough! We don't have time to blab about the past right now!"

Thank you, Falco! Get to what the frack we're doing at Titania! What's goin' on NOW??? THAT is what Star Fox WAS back in Star fox 64 (Comparison Time). You were given a slight but very sustainable background story that told you WHY you wanted to kill Androsss, and that's ALL YOU NEEDED to get to the action! Here, they essentially DRILLED an unnecessary drama-tizer into an otherwise interesting conversation! WHY!? WHY DO WE NEED THIS!? WHY DO WE NEED TO SUDDENLY START FEELING SORRY FOR THE GUY!? Forget this madness! I don't need this madness! I'd rather skip this mess of pointless dialogue and just get to frackin' ACTION!!! After all, isn't that what the series is KNOWN FOR (especially outside of the fanbase)!? (Deep exhale, heavy breathing)

My rant is over. Hope you enjoyed it. :-)

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Drasiana

Thank you, Falco! Get to what the frack we're doing at Titania!

ummm weren't they going to Titania to find the purification device that they're literally talking about in that conversation...

like... the plot actually does kind of hinge on andross's pre-crazy inventions. the dialogue is dumb and bad but they're not bringing it up for no reason

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Joseph.

My opinion? That conversation between Fox and Krystal is a waste of time.

Andross WAS a maniac during the Lylat Wars, scolding Fox as he and his team approached him and his planet. Fox had a good reason for saying what he said for what Andross did to him and his father, but he sounded like a baby about it. How old is Fox in this game? And what was he like BEFORE this game?

Perhaps Wolf told her this while she was with them and she bought it. Now this pointless argument is happening. 

"Enough! We don't have time to blab about the past right now!"

My rant is over. Hope you enjoyed it. :-)

I enjoyed your rant lol I remember Command being the first Star Fox game where i completely ignored all of the dialog.

Addross was always seen as the main villain who was insane and now in command Krystal's all like "Well you don't like him cause he killed your father"

That brat, even if addross wasn't that evil, you still wouldn't like the guy who killed your dad! Heck, why would she bring it up? So she could rub in to make Fox feel bad??

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AlGore'sleftshoe

WOULD IF: NEW LYLAT WAR: KRYSTAL JOINS VENOM, SHE'S A COMMIE, loljk, putting her with "the villains" was stupid, I didn't really like that part, it was an unnecessary plot twist that could have been good, it was honestly one of the higher points of the game, but it's a higher point of a horribly shitty game, it's like a piece of corn jutting up from a turd on the ground, vs Assault, SNES and 64 which were the mountains of the series.

I honestly love the idea of a deeper story for StarFox, if they don't just glance over it like they did in Assault, or just BARELY mentioned it in a prologue like in 64, whereas vast areas of plot aren't even mentioned in the actual game like in SNES, read the box or some shit lol. Command TRIED to get into the story more to makeup for the complete lack of decent gameplay, but it failed miserably with a series of plotholes to rival StarWars A New Hope. (I LOVE StarWars, but the story for the first movie was just stupid)

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Pharaoh Shadon

Wanna know what I think was the games biggest flaw is? The multiple story paths. I don't know about you, but whenever a game has multiple ways to go through a story, it ends up sucking. Shadow the Hedgehog being one of my prime examples, and command being my ultimate example.

The story was probably a mess because they had 9 endings, and I don't even want to know how many paths and different plot points that add up to those 9 endings. So I think it was a mess because they had to crated over 9 stories, yet still put it all into one DS game, from a series that's given us the closest thing to nothing a series has probably ever given.

 

If this game just had 1 story, they'd be able to flesh it all out, and make one big "Epic" But they decided to divide their time up with multiple stories instead of just one.

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