Fookes

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Fookes

I have noticed many people on the internet upset with Star Fox Zero for reasons such as Krystal not being in it, graphics, and it being very similar to Star Fox 64. Look, I understand that Star Fox Zero may not live up to your expectations, but really, we should be thankful for a new Star Fox game.

It may not be the Star Fox we've always dreamed of, but we've got to appreciate what we've got, and who knows? Maybe Nintendo will make a sequel with better graphics and/or Krystal!

We have been begging for a new Star Fox game for years, and Nintendo finally answered our call! And what was our reaction? Complaining about graphics, reboots, and the lack of Krystal, and not appreciating the fact that Nintendo has been listening to us.

Please, can we just be thankful?

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ArwingFan

So far I like what I see.  We've got transforming vehicles, co-op where one shoots and other drives, and that classic Star Fox feel. All good things to have.

The graphics aren't that bad and they're improving from what we've seen in recent trailers. Think of what they'll be like in April!

The reboot assuming it is one instead of a retelling (Nintendo works in mysterious ways), I don't care for the current continuity and it could give the series a fresh canvas to make a stronger one.

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SF Redd

I think most of the people complaining aren't even really big Star Fox fans.

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Lord Shen

Thanksgiving was two weeks ago.

Bad graphics.

Bad game.

#voteWithYourDollars

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Ori

Let's put things on pros and cons here for a second. I'll do the math putting on measurable point system even though I suck at numbers:

  • New StarFox game. It exists within the century and our lifespan. (+2.5)
  • Graphics don't look bad, and the artstyle hasn't shifted beyond recognition. Characters are easily recognizable and are in updated, better graphics [opinion]. (+1)
  • Reboot: Taking the easy way out of the mess that happened in the end of the Command timeline, essentially all endings have contested existence with each other and merged progress from those points was very unlikely. (+1)
  • Reboot: Bonus 0.5 points for taking the path right off a point that seems to be almost like SF64 timeline-wise-- allows for further lore re-creating and better retelling of the game's story if it's planned. (+0.5)
  • Gameplay seems fluid and simple to understand with varied control modes for each player. (+1)
  • "starfox is a cool guy he fights aliens and doesn't afraid anything" (+0)
  • Platinum. Games. Metal Gear Rising, Bayonetta, The Wonderful 101 and The Legend of Korra. They know what they're doing. That is all. (+3.5)

Now for the down side:

  • No used potential from "Andross' army remnants" mentioned in Assault and likewise no explanation about the supposed war fought between the resistance led by Oikonny, since all the timeline from 64 has been erased though... timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting... but all things considered, too many gaping plot holes to salvage, even if would have been nice to have continued from Assault's point instead. (-0.75)
  • Krystal removed. Not technically a bad thing from my view, but remove something popular from your game, and that's bound to upset fans. (-1,5)
  • WiiU exclusive. Might be part of the reason to have the WiiU in the first place, but Nintendo tends to use StarFox as their testbed for new things. Would as well use it to branch out into other consoles or PC. (-1)
  • Even if the graphics are well worked, they're still not totally to level with otherwise more recent games. This may be part reason that the game is still not very finished in dev, but the presented material isn't completely finished so people will definitely not really like that. (-1,5)
  • Walker mode design could use some changes. (-0.25)
  • "7,8/10 too much water" (-0)

Total points boils down to 4,5 on the positive side it would seem. Platinum is reputable for being a good dev AND writers on themselves and as a third party as well, and tends to deliver when their games are published. The fact a new StarFox game even exists is something of miracle proportions that can only be rivaled by Gabe Newell announcing Half-Life 2: Episode Three personally, and despite all things, a reboot spares everyone the mess of having to continue off from the considerable mess that Command made. Assault's state had plot holes and Adventures didn't add very substantial, tangible content other than Krystal, which was never really worked on.

In the long run, whoever's complaining this early is being loud. The reboot gives breathing space and less promises to live up to if-- or more likely-- WHEN they write out the rest of the story in a better way.

So unless someone on their death bed had their highest hope and dream to see an obscure niche game that's seen little to no activity turning into a very specific 1:1 copy of their personal thoughts, there's literally no significance to the raging and it's all nonsense. (And I think people with terminal illness often spend their time better than raging about vidyagams, you know, friends and family) Main ire is the fact that the game isn't even on preorder yet so what the heck are they raging about

(man i swear every time there's a new game announced and it's ways ahead until launch date a bajillion timetravelling john titors just sprout out from the ground saying that the game will be the cause of WW3 or something.)

I'm probably just giving this too much credit though so I should stop here. sleep deprivation does things to me asdf 

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Scourge

People will whine and complain no matter what you do. Platinum seem like they're having fun with a new direction for the series and I have enough faith in them to be excited about it that I'm hopeful.

if Zero turns out to be good, we could have a whole new canon storyline of awesomesauce that could introduce Krystal back in any number of fantastical and insane ways. We'll just have to see.

Call my opinion one of a starry-eyed fanboy but at this point, I'm just glad to have another game in the near future to think about. The past decade has sucked

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Arminius H O Fiddywinks

Look at all of these words!

Personally, I'm happy there's a new Star Fox game.

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Dr. Orange

People are getting at Star Fox Zero? 

Wait what?

It's not even out yet.

What's there to be angry at?

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StarFoxfan-FUR_ever

I think I may have inadvertently started all this months ago when we got our first look at the game. If I remember correctly, my comments were about how Nintendo was trying to "sell us a 20 year old game with a few new features". I'm going to assume fans that were in the shadows for years flocked to SF-O and saw my comments which killed their hype.

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ArwingFan
1 hour ago, Dr. Orange said:

People are getting at Star Fox Zero? 

Wait what?

It's not even out yet.

What's there to be angry at?

A certain individual here made like 20 rants on how 64 is overrated and how disappointed he is with Zero. Also notice how many "Wahh ps2 gwafixs" comments you see on youtube.

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hirobo2

I'm afraid AirFox Zero (Arwing in this one is not really a starfighter but a fighter jet hybrid --- doesn't look like something from SW but straight out of MS Flight Simulator) will receive the same lukewarm reception as YWW.  Sure YWW has all that pretty fancy updated graphics, but it's a pale/poor imitation of the original SMW2 w/o the one element that made the original great:  Baby Mario!

 

I've been rooting for a StarFox ever since the SNES days, but the closest thing we got was Assault!

 

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Dr. Orange
2 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

something from SW

2 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

same lukewarm reception as YWW.  

2 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

 SMW2

You got to use the title at least one time before you jump to the abbreviations. 

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Ori
On 08/12/2015 at 4:28 PM, hirobo2 said:

[snip]

Presumably you're talking Star Wars, Yoshi's Woolly World and Super Mario World 2.

Anyway, I don't wanna be that guy but I'm not sure if I can understand where you're coming from. The design choice taken in StarFox Zero isn't looking like something from Star Wars because it isn't supposed to look like Star Wars spacecraft. In fact if anything they're just reusing a hybrid between the 64/Adventures model design, or maybe more like the Brawl version if I recall correctly. The thing is, it's supposed to look like StarFox. That's exactly what they're doing.

Nintendo is just using the designs they have at hand and quite frankly doesn't need to go through lengths just for the sake of doing a design change to look "scifi-ey" in the way other series look. It's no sin to stick to originality.

And the game is called StarFox yes, but even then, it's not a prohibitive factor to borrow elements from like air combat hence their designs try looking like jet fighters somehow, though they'd need some changes to work realistically. As a fact, science fiction in general takes way too many liberties when it comes to space combat (I.e. breaking the law of inertia, simulated atmospheric friction in vacuum), and most of it tends to lean towards familiar, easier-to-understand things to some degree like-- you guessed it; aerial combat. Under realistic circumstances combat in space is a lot more lethal and tends to end with the first few hits without the presence of magitech shield systems and other fabricated gadgetry for the purpose of make-believe. It's not all that awesome-looking to watch.

Additionally, the game isn't even out yet, so saying this is going to be an imitation of a prior title is not really reasonable given the little info we were given as of now. Let's wait out until a wider range of people has been able to reach their on-hands experience and give their conclusion.

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hirobo2
1 hour ago, Orbi The Joyful Furry said:

Presumably you're talking Star Wars, Yoshi's Woolly World and Super Mario World 2.

Anyway, I don't wanna be that guy but I'm not sure if I can understand where you're coming from. The design choice taken in StarFox Zero isn't looking like something from Star Wars because it isn't supposed to look like Star Wars spacecraft. In fact if anything they're just reusing a hybrid between the 64/Adventures model design, or maybe more like the Brawl version if I recall correctly. The thing is, it's supposed to look like StarFox. That's exactly what they're doing.

Nintendo is just using the designs they have at hand and quite frankly doesn't need to go through lengths just for the sake of doing a design change to look "scifi-ey" in the way other series look. It's no sin to stick to originality.

And the game is called StarFox yes, but even then, it's not a prohibitive factor to borrow elements from like air combat hence their designs try looking like jet fighters somehow, though they'd need some changes to work realistically. As a fact, science fiction in general takes way too many liberties when it comes to space combat (I.e. breaking the law of inertia, simulated atmospheric friction in vacuum), and most of it tends to lean towards familiar, easier-to-understand things to some degree like-- you guessed it; aerial combat. Under realistic circumstances combat in space is a lot more lethal and tends to end with the first few hits without the presence of magitech shield systems and other fabricated gadgetry for the purpose of make-believe. It's not all that awesome-looking to watch.

Additionally, the game isn't even out yet, so saying this is going to be an imitation of a prior title is not really reasonable given the little info we were given as of now. Let's wait out until a wider range of people has been able to reach their on-hands experience and give their conclusion.

Nintendo doesn't understand StarFox.  There seems to be two "StarFox" threads in existence.  There's the one that's a parody of Star Wars (SNES/Assault), and there's the other one that's a parody of the Thunderbirds (SF64/Zero) where the Arwing is an airplane.  

I fell in love with StarFox b/c it was technically better than Star Wars.  If I wanted to like the Thunderbirds, I have countless other fighter jet games on the PlayStation for that!

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Fedora
8 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

Nintendo doesn't understand StarFox.  There seems to be two "StarFox" threads in existence.  There's the one that's a parody of Star Wars (SNES/Assault), and there's the other one that's a parody of the Thunderbirds (SF64/Zero) where the Arwing is an airplane.  

I fell in love with StarFox b/c it was technically better than Star Wars.  If I wanted to like the Thunderbirds, I have countless other fighter jet games on the PlayStation for that!

Last I checked, Thunderbirds didn't have a successful tyrannical scientist who had an entire army opposing him. I don't think any of the Tracy boys saw combat either.

Last I checked,Starfox doesn't have you executing rescue missions in ridiculously customized aircraft besides "Give the rebels a few extra guns in an Independence Day shout out" and "don't leave Slippy hangin'!"

 

The closest thing between Thunderbirds and Starfox we got is a tenuous relation with puppets. And Starfox never focused on those anyway.

 

And what threads? Do you mean canon? SNES pretty much had its own canon.

 

I think I'm confused on what you're trying to get at.

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hirobo2
54 minutes ago, Fedora said:

Last I checked, Thunderbirds didn't have a successful tyrannical scientist who had an entire army opposing him. I don't think any of the Tracy boys saw combat either.

Last I checked,Starfox doesn't have you executing rescue missions in ridiculously customized aircraft besides "Give the rebels a few extra guns in an Independence Day shout out" and "don't leave Slippy hangin'!"



 

The closest thing between Thunderbirds and Starfox we got is a tenuous relation with puppets. And Starfox never focused on those anyway.



 

And what threads? Do you mean canon? SNES pretty much had its own canon.



 

I think I'm confused on what you're trying to get at.

The point I'm trying to get at is, StarFox lost its appeal when it tried to become just another jet fighter clone.  Do you know how many jet fighter clones there are out there?  Tonnes.  Do you know how many Star Wars parody existed that include battling an evil emperor?  Used to be one (SNES).  Now there are none (current gen games).


 

The only thing a jet fighter couldn't/wouldn't do beside the Arwing was a barrel roll.
 

 

StarFox needs to be like this to regain its popularity.  The only reason why Kamui never gained traction was b/c it was a cool futuristic starfighter battling random boss enemies w/o a story backbone (er, I mean "my evil Emperor" parody):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mpOr5VZQTSk

 

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hirobo2

Here's another way to think of it.  In The Hobbit, Smaug the dragon is really a 4-legged dragon (SNES).  But in the movies, he's a two-legged wyvern (SF64/Zero mutations on the original SNES concept).  No longer the badass dragon that he is supposed to be, that I knew of... been reduced to an oversized chicken with scales rather than feathers...

 

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Dr. Orange
1 hour ago, hirobo2 said:

Here's another way to think of it.  In The Hobbit, Smaug the dragon is really a 4-legged dragon (SNES).  But in the movies, he's a two-legged wyvern (SF64/Zero mutations on the original SNES concept).  No longer the badass dragon that he is supposed to be, that I knew of... been reduced to an oversized chicken with scales rather than feathers...

>implying Wyverns aren't cool

You pleb

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Leon
13 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

The point I'm trying to get at is, StarFox lost its appeal when it tried to become just another jet fighter clone.  Do you know how many jet fighter clones there are out there?  Tonnes.  Do you know how many Star Wars parody existed that include battling an evil emperor?  Used to be one (SNES).  Now there are none (current gen games).

I don't see how Star Fox SNES in anyway resmebles Star Wars outside of them both featuring space as a setting and conflict with an empire. I mean you might as well claim that SF is a Space Battleship Yamato parody since that stars a space faring crew that fights against an aggressive evil empire. 

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That Ain't Falco

Actually, while we're at it, let's throw in Homer's epic poems. One could compare the story of the Iliad to several of Command's endings, and the Odyssey to Adventures. OHMIGOD ITS THE STORY OF ODYSSEUS WITH FURRIES.

or we could compare the games to Space Invaders and count the similarities (Though they are much closer to Galaxian)

or we could compare the graphics to Silpheed and scream parody

Thinking about it, wasn't one of the Silpheed games marketed as a Starfox killer? Yeah, that sure did well. I might actually make a thread on "Starfox killer" games, because there was a surprising amount of them. (Guardian, that Jaguar launch title, I'm looking at you.)

By the way, sorry for poor quality on this post, I'm on mobile out of necessity at the moment.

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Ori

The kicker here is that StarFox borrows so many elements from so many places that in the end result it doesn't matter what it "should" resemble more because as a fact there's nothing specific it leans onto-- It just grabs elements from many fiction of the same era. If StarFox was made more in-depth and during the current science fiction scene you can bet that it would have at least one reference to ongoing themes in scifi such as transhumanism, cybernetics, nanotechnology, the ethics of such and so forth instead of pew-pew lasers, bubble shields, monotone robots or stoic evil cyborgs and Space Friction. Back at the Star Wars era, 'science fiction' involved a lot of make-believe with magical properties to the plot devices and most fiction portrayed space as a rather untouchable setting for all sorts of imaginary-technology-based fiction take place in, but things have changed, hence the shift from the Space Opera genre to works of fiction that point more towards Cyberpunk (even if the genre is not the most notable) in tone and traits, consequently "hardening" the realism factors to match.

Or maybe not-- Nintendo is known as being a not-exactly-trendy game developer and often breaks trending norms regardless of the results.

In which this goes to the point where we need to be honest; Star Wars inspired directly and indirectly a number of other fictional works, "science" fiction or otherwise, that involve somehow "the Empire" as an enemy, hostile or comparable entity. Even then, other works also had made mention of an empire as an obvious hostile, such as Star Trek and the already-mentioned Battleship Yamato series. Later in time you can find works that share this trait as it's already well-beyond the point this became a Trope seen in many fiction, not only sci-fi examples. It's possible to go on all day, but it all comes full circle when the argument is that SF is meant to be an imitation of Star Wars because of one loose attribute that occurred in many works of fiction prior even to Star Wars.

Actually come think of it, I'm probably overanalyzing this. Forget the overanalysis.

The real point here is that SF's only sin here was to follow the route it's already been doing for a while now: a campy, somewhat corny even, but light-hearted shoot-em-up that acts as a jack of all references, imitator of none. It wasn't made originally as a Star Wars imitation and if it was, that doubles for Independence Day, Star Trek, Top Gun, and others. If SF isn't giving enough credit to where it originally was based from by changing and stopping to be like them then the whole thing is a moot point because it just means the StarFox dev. team is trying to do something new instead.

In addition, space shooter games have always been more popular than actual air combat simulator games given how it's easier to market science fiction that often captivates the target audience with wild, imaginative designs. For a good while during the SNES era and after it was easier to accept buying your kid some made-up spaceship full of flashy colors than buying actual aircraft miniatures used in actual warfare because the former doesn't make as many people throw a tantrum that "vidyagaims are the cause of all today's evulz". It's been mostly a marketing tactic; that's both the long and short story about it.

Additionally, the space travel capabilities of the Arwing exempted, conventional aircraft often are capable of just as many stunts in terms of maneuverability. Unless of course you're referring to the projectile deflection capabilities of the Arwing during the Aileron rolls (proper terminology) which are more of a fictional defensive method characteristic to the Arwing itself.

 

 

...I'm pretty sure I put too much thought on this but eh.

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hirobo2

Reasons why I'm currently disliking SFZ:

 

1.  Too much nostalgia pandering.  Ex:  The training level music.  Started off as something sweet.  It started to get stale when it transitiioned the SF64 training level music remix.  Same with the Corneria level.  When you complete that level, it's the same "Disney-like" music from SF64 when the Arwings are blasting off into outer space.  They composed an entirely different score for the level.  Why not maintain that change instead of lazily borrowing from SF64 towards the end?

2.  It's being released on a shoddy console.  Wii U hardware has bad reviews on Amazon.  Before reading the reviews there, I was thinking of getitng a Wii U sometime in the future.  No longer the case.  Tonnes of ppl are reporting problems with the gamepad, like having to sit next to the console just to see contents streamed to the gamepad.  WTF?
 

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DZComposer
5 hours ago, hirobo2 said:

Reasons why I'm currently disliking SFZ:

 

1.  Too much nostalgia pandering.  Ex:  The training level music.  Started off as something sweet.  It started to get stale when it transitiioned the SF64 training level music remix.  Same with the Corneria level.  When you complete that level, it's the same "Disney-like" music from SF64 when the Arwings are blasting off into outer space.  They composed an entirely different score for the level.  Why not maintain that change instead of lazily borrowing from SF64 towards the end?

2.  It's being released on a shoddy console.  Wii U hardware has bad reviews on Amazon.  Before reading the reviews there, I was thinking of getitng a Wii U sometime in the future.  No longer the case.  Tonnes of ppl are reporting problems with the gamepad, like having to sit next to the console just to see contents streamed to the gamepad.  WTF?
 

Wow...

1. Recurring musical themes throughout a series exist everywhere and are part of what ties a series together.  You see it in movies: Star Wars, Lord of the Rings, Indiana Jones, Harry Potter, Jurassic park, I could go on. You see it in Video games. Halo. Final Fantasy. Zelda. Mario.

2. What the bloody hell are you on about? Almost none of the Wii U packages on Amazon have a less than 3.5 star rating, and most are 4+. The only listings I saw with low scores were from very shady looking sellers and the reviews were all about the seller not the product. I think you're suffering from confirmation bias. You don't like the Wii U to start with so you found a few bad reviews and made a generalization. If you don't like it, fine just say that.

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Drasiana

ok so here's my solid list of reasons on why sfz will be bad, guys:

-it isn't star wars
-it, a nintendo-exclusive series, is being released on nintendo's current console
-it isn't mass effect
-the familiar looking series-iconic arwing driven by talking animals doesn't look like a realistic enough space fighter
-no titty
-a completely unrelated game sold better than this unreleased game has sold so far
-it isn't halo
-i can't call an eight year old a fuckhead over online multiplayer
-james cameron didn't do the cinematography
-nintendo didn't respond to the 30 letters i sent them telling them to include my oc sergeant vulpine badass so they don't really care about true fans

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      Later that day...
      Fox, Falco, Peppy and Slippy, watching cheese burn in a restaurant founded by a hippie!
      "Yay, Fox!" clapped Falco, Peppy, and Slippy, as a giant block of cheese slowly melted under a candle's flames. They all clinged wine glasses together.
      "LONG LIVE TEAM STAR FOX. AND LONG LIVE THE GLORIOUS GIFT THAT KEEPS ON GIVING...CHEESE!" they all yelled. The three men cheered and shared a group hug, then devoured more cheese and dived into an oversized apple cider jug. Outside the room was the beautiful Krystal, aspy. She had seen enough, Fox just wasn't her guy.
      Note: I took the words "THE END" and made them be out of cheese. Then I rolled them up in an awesomely tasty text sandwich.
      / \ (_, THE END
      ) /\/ _ (o)(
      \ \_) (o) /
      \/_/
       
    • TheRadFox987
      By TheRadFox987
      Greetings, fellow Cornerians I am here.
    • Revolver Ocelot
      By Revolver Ocelot
      Teaser trailer is here!
       
       
      What is it?
      Star Fox 2: HD is an ongoing work to remaster and add new features to the SNES Star Fox, the unreleased Star Fox 2 and potentially Star Fox 64.
      Currently, this project is being worked on by only one person. However, development positions may open in the future to help work on the game. As only simple scripting knowledge is known, this means there will definitely be spots open for CSharp and JS developers in the future.
      The game was originally developed under the working title of 'Electric Boogaloo' (yes, i understand where that comes from) however the name was changed for obvious reasons after the development became a serious project. The game is also going to have its own soundtrack, composed of the SNES Star Fox 1 and 2 soundtrack re-mastered.
      Unlike the SNES Star Fox 1, which had a linear 'corridor' mode for most of its levels, Star Fox 2: HD will be more open, allowing you to fly around and explore, maybe find an easter egg or two.
       
       
      Discord Server link
      https://discord.gg/wtUKUBn
      Come join!
      Screenshots

       





       
       
      F.A.Q
      Nothing has been asked yet, however I've brewed up a couple you might wonder.
      "What game engine does this use?"
      -The game uses Unity 5.
      "What if you get a cease and desist or anything like that?"
      -meh.
      "How is the soundtrack going to be done?"
      -The Star Fox .spc songs are going to exported from the .sfc as MIDI, then played through a custom soundfont after instrument and channel tweaks are done.
      "How can I contribute to the development of the game?"
      -You can find me on discord (Revolver Ocelot#6732) and then you can explain how you want to help the game.
      News
      11/06/2017 - 11:31 PM AEST
      -The game is announced to the community-
      12/06/2017 - 2:00PM AEST
      -The teaser trailer is released-
      15/06/2017 - 8:16AM AEST-
      -New Corneria skybox added
       
      That's all for now!
       
       
       
       
       
    • MidnightMike
      By MidnightMike
      Hello everyone. ^^
      My name is MidnightMike, and I'm here to show you my tribute animation to the original Star Fox, which celebrated it's 25th anniversary this past March.
      I know it might not be as good as you were hoping, but I had fun making it. Here it is. :)