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Robert Monroe

The Star Fox Continuity Thread!

36 posts in this topic

Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe

So with Zero here and out and an all new timeline established both familiar and different to what we already know, I figure it'd be fun if we collaborated on organizing the unique differences between each (as well as the similarities). I'm only listing what I know, so comment on what I forget or miss and I'll add it!

 

The SNES Canon:

Material Included: Starfox, Starfox 2, Nintendo Power Comic, Starfox Manual

Storyline Highlights:

-James is known as "Fox Sr.", Fox is known as "Fox Jr.". 

-Star Wolf exists in Starfox 2; unsure if this applies any of their backstory from 64 though (Pigma's betrayal, etc)

-Andross was raised by CYBORG PIGS, has a robot pig adjutant named Herbert (the comic was weird)

-Andross also was in love with Fox's mother, Vixy, and accidentally killed her with a car bomb meant for James/Fox Sr

-James/Fox Sr. died when transporting an experimental weapon that exploded, most likely booby trapped by Andross.

-Andross was banished to Venom after an experiment of his caused a natural disaster on Corneria

-Andross discovered ancient technology on Venom and used it to create his army alongside recruiting/enslaving/mind controlling the native reptile inhabitants

-Fara, Fay and Miyu are exclusive to this canon. Honorable mention goes to Algy (Was he meant to be Andrew or his own character?)

-Andross dies a LOT in this canon. (Once at the end of Starfox, then THREE times in the post-game comic, then a fifth time in Starfox 2!)

-Venom is terraformed in Starfox 2; may have been green before Andross's arrival (the comic suggests it was barren, the manual says Andross polluted it)

-Sector Y is a "space ocean" full of aquatic themed animals; Sector X and Z are just debris fields orbit Corneria

-Macbeth is a volcanic planet with a hollow interior. Titania is a frozen planet (that or Doctor Hangar's weather controller made it frozen?)

-Locations unique to the SNES canon are Meteor, the Black Hole, Out of this Dimension, Eladard, and Astropolis.

-Star Fox start out as bandits who raid Andross' armies, illustrating them as a Robin Hood against a corrupt empire; the greater implication is that Venom and Corneria are opposing super powers fighting across the Lylat system.

-The Arwing is experimental technology that Starfox was asked to use; it did not exist previously.

-There is no "Original Starfox" before Fox/Falco/Slippy/Peppy; James/Fox Sr. was a Cornerian pilot

-Starfox's ages are different than other canons: Fox and Falco are in their mid20s and Peppy only in his 30s. Slippy is still 18, however.

-The Arwing has a mecha form in Starfox 2

 

The 64 Canon:

Material Included: Starfox 64, Starfox 64 Player's Guide, Farewell Beloved Falco Comic, Starfox Adventures, Starfox Assault, Starfox Command

Storyline Highlights:

-Introduces Beltino, James as "James", and the "G1" Starfox team along with Pigma's betrayal

-Andross before the war seems much more sinister, having once reduced Lylat to a "wasteland of near extinction"

-Andross is again banished to Venom but the ruins this time seem to be ancient instead of advanced.

-Andross' army consists mostly of apes instead of reptiles

-Unique major characters are Krystal, Panther, Dash, Amanda, and Lucy. 

-Introduces other species beyond Lylatians: Anglars and Aparoids

-Introduced the Landmaster tank and Blue Marine

-Andross has a more tangible, physical form in this canon compared to others

-Unique locations are Katina, Aquas, and Solar.

-Sector Y and Z are different from the SNES canon: rather than a space ocean and a construction yard, they are merely massive radioactive nebulae and space graveyards.

-Fichina is erroneously called Fortuna in SF64. This is remedied in Assault.

-Solar appears to be a red dwarf in SF64, but is changed to a yellow or orange dwarf in Command. This is retroactively applied to SF643D as well.  The truth is though Solar is not a star at all, but merely a molten planet like Macbeth is in the SNES canon.

-(WIP!)

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Storminator    42
Storminator

http://gamesdbase.com/Media/SYSTEM/Nintendo_SNES/manual/Formated/Star_Fox_-_1993_-_Nintendo.pdf
 

Here's a PDF of the SNES Manual. Seems the planet order is 1.Venom, 2.Titania, 3.Macbeth, 4. Corneria, 5.Fortuna. Other things of note is that Venom was apparently a lush planet- "While it used to be known as the "evergreen planet" and boasted scenery second only to Corneria".

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Clearwater    386
Clearwater

I wouldn't exactly place SF Command in the 64 timeline, since it was established by Dylan Cuthbert (Or whoever I'm thinking of that directed Command) that Command isn't really canon.

I personally also think that SF Zero should be placed in the 64 canon (Replacing SF64 maybe?), since the way Pepper speaks to Peppy at the end of the The Battle Begins anime sounded like they already knew each other. That plus the team already has the Great Fox.

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Patch93    232
Patch93
Quote

Venom is terraformed in Starfox 2

Actually according to the SF1 manual, Venom was always an evergreen planet before Andross took over. Either it recovered on it's own after Andross was defeated, or like you said, the Cornerians terraformed it.

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe
6 hours ago, Clearwater said:

I wouldn't exactly place SF Command in the 64 timeline, since it was established by Dylan Cuthbert (Or whoever I'm thinking of that directed Command) that Command isn't really canon.

I personally also think that SF Zero should be placed in the 64 canon (Replacing SF64 maybe?), since the way Pepper speaks to Peppy at the end of the The Battle Begins anime sounded like they already knew each other. That plus the team already has the Great Fox.

Command's story is  hard to canonize because it has 9 contradicting intertwining storylines, but elements of it can be taken as canon separate from that: the Anglars, Dash, Amanda, Lucy, stuff like that.

Zero contradicts SF64 in several places, the most notable of which is the treatment of Venom, and Miyamoto himself  has said Zero is a reimagining and rebirth of Starfox, so it creates a third continuity.

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SF Redd    115
SF Redd
2 hours ago, Robert Monroe said:

Command's story is  hard to canonize because it has 9 contradicting intertwining storylines, but elements of it can be taken as canon separate from that: the Anglars, Dash, Amanda, Lucy, stuff like that.

Zero contradicts SF64 in several places, the most notable of which is the treatment of Venom, and Miyamoto himself  has said Zero is a reimagining and rebirth of Starfox, so it creates a third continuity.

It doesn't matter if it contradicts Star Fox 64, if it is no longer canon, as long as it doesn't contradict what still is canon, that being Adventures and Assault. Also, Miyamoto said during the 2015 E3 treehouse event that it's not a reboot. It is a re-imagining of 64, meaning that what Clear said is right, it does replace 64 in the cannon.

Also, with Command, I've seen (Ether Miyamoto or Cuthbert, I can't remember which one) in an interview, where they said that Command isn't canon. I've tried to re-find that interview in the past many times before, but have had no luck.

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe

The "Command isn't canon" argument is a misunderstanding of what a sequel to Command would be as said by Cuthbert. Something along the lines of "it could use any of the endings, or none of them, we don't know yet". However, because its impossible for any one storyline to coexist with another, Command occupies a nebulous spot in the timeline where its events can't really be canonized but its ELEMENTS can.

And Zero is as much of a reboot to 64 as 64 was to the SNES original. For the intents and purposes of this thread, I'm considering them three separate continuities and until official word says otherwise that yes Zero -replaces- 64 in its timeline I am treating them as such. There's definitely overlap between all three (and hell almost everyone implemented SOME SNES canon into the 64 one) but they're three distinctly different things regardless.

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Leon    59
Leon

You can see the CPM building by Pepper's tower, so it has to fit in somewhere. 

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The VGM Lover    194
The VGM Lover
13 minutes ago, ArwingFan said:

Does Guard fit anywhere into the canon?

Why not? 

(Spoiler in hidden comment!)

Spoiler

A corporation decided to be an asshole towards Grippy's base in the early days of the Lylat Wars! Somehow, Pigma's involved, but I haven't been far enough in the game to dig into that, yet.

 

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe

Guard is at least canon to Zero. It could probably easily fit into the 64 canon too and maybe even the SNES.

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Storminator    42
Storminator
1 minute ago, Robert Monroe said:

Guard is at least canon to Zero. It could probably easily fit into the 64 canon too and maybe even the SNES.

I'd love to have more info on stuff outside the immediate conflict like in Guard, which is why I think expanding on the The Battle Begins short would be great.

Back on topic though, I'm with you in that elements of Command can certainly be used like the Anglars and supporting characters, maybe even some of the storylines (But they'd need heavy, HEAVY reworking)

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SF Redd    115
SF Redd
43 minutes ago, Robert Monroe said:

The "Command isn't canon" argument is a misunderstanding of what a sequel to Command would be as said by Cuthbert. Something along the lines of "it could use any of the endings, or none of them, we don't know yet". However, because its impossible for any one storyline to coexist with another, Command occupies a nebulous spot in the timeline where its events can't really be canonized but its ELEMENTS can.

And Zero is as much of a reboot to 64 as 64 was to the SNES original. For the intents and purposes of this thread, I'm considering them three separate continuities and until official word says otherwise that yes Zero -replaces- 64 in its timeline I am treating them as such. There's definitely overlap between all three (and hell almost everyone implemented SOME SNES canon into the 64 one) but they're three distinctly different things regardless.

It wasn't that specific interview that I'm thinking about.

We have had official word that it isn't a complete reboot. Like I said, Miyamoto said that it's not a reboot. He said that it isn't a reboot, and what it is is a re-imagining. That's what re-imagining means. It's re-imagining Star Fox 64, updating it and giving it a few new things. By the very definition of a re-imagining, it merely replaces Star Fox 64 in the timeline.

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Patch93    232
Patch93
Quote

We have had official word that it isn't a complete reboot. Like I said, Miyamoto said that it's not a reboot.

Where did Miyamoto say SFZ is not a reboot? Provide a source please.

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe

Miyamoto used his typical weird cryptic non-answers in a Nintendo Direct or E3 video. It's "not a sequel, prequel, or remake". But it's also not replacing 64, either. It's its own thing, much how 64 was to the original SNES game.

 

Also I'll play more guard soon to get info on that, I didn't know it had any story hidden in there.

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Mecha-Katt    51
Mecha-Katt
43 minutes ago, Robert Monroe said:

Miyamoto used his typical weird cryptic non-answers in a Nintendo Direct or E3 video. It's "not a sequel, prequel, or remake". But it's also not replacing 64, either. It's its own thing, much how 64 was to the original SNES game.

Didn't he also say, it is a bit like with the Zelda timeline, were those games exist in some sort of Parallel-universe/different timeline? That's what I thought.

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Storminator    42
Storminator
40 minutes ago, Mecha-Katt said:

Didn't he also say, it is a bit like with the Zelda timeline, were those games exist in some sort of Parallel-universe/different timeline? That's what I thought.

Parallel Universes is very likely, especially given the SNES games's/Comics use of them and Star Fox Zero's you know what with Andross

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MikeMurdock    7
MikeMurdock

I do like of your structure of the star fox canons by far. I do agree with Storminator that it could be 3 different alt universes. Many games do that. The Armored core franchise went that way. Having 4 universe (ac1-aa, ac3-last raven, 4+4answer, 5+verdict day). Tomb radier went through various reboots. and wolfenstein got rebooted 3 times.  Mainly a company does it to tell a story in a different view or to use gameplay mechanics the previous games could not handle ( like ac5 going for a more grounded mech combat with mini mecha and using the controls from metal wolf chaos than 4 going all super robot)Sometimes it's good sometimes it's bad. I would like to see what they do with the games after zero to see where the story goes, but for now we have to wait and see.

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SF Redd    115
SF Redd
1 hour ago, Robert Monroe said:

Miyamoto used his typical weird cryptic non-answers in a Nintendo Direct or E3 video. It's "not a sequel, prequel, or remake". But it's also not replacing 64, either. It's its own thing, much how 64 was to the original SNES game.

You realise that what you're doing is picking and choosing what parts of the confirmed canon to take as canon and which parts to take as non-canon, don't you? That's called headcanon. You're not deciphering the official canon, you're ignoring and twisting the words of the creator to suit your own headcanon.

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe

4:25


"We've rebuilt the game using ideas from the past, but its not a part four or part five. It's not a remake, either, so we named it "Starfox Zero" this time."

 

What exactly am I twisting about this? These are Miyamoto's actual words about the game. 

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Animal Pilot    10
Animal Pilot
9 hours ago, SF Alba said:

It doesn't matter if it contradicts Star Fox 64, if it is no longer canon, as long as it doesn't contradict what still is canon, that being Adventures and Assault.

You're wrong about that, and so are your other statements about canon but this one in particular stands out.

It is clearly stated in Adventures that it is Team Star Fox's first visit to Dinosaur Planet aka Sauria. In the Star Fox Zero prequel anime Slippy says they just got back from Sauria aka Dinosaur Planet. This is a contradiction, and when that occurs the new material completely overrides the old. 

Zero is obviously a reboot as the above Miyamoto quote confirms, those other adventures never happened in this timeline. Trying to mix and match aspects of both continuities to create a unified story is your own headcanon on this topic.

The same characters probably still exist in this universe, but they won't meet each other in the same way.

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Patch93    232
Patch93

Problem is, we don't know if the anime is canon or not.

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Joseph.    33
Joseph.
6 hours ago, Robert Monroe said:

Miyamoto used his typical weird cryptic non-answers in a Nintendo Direct or E3 video. It's "not a sequel, prequel, or remake". But it's also not replacing 64, either. It's its own thing, much how 64 was to the original SNES game.

So basically Zero was a "lets play it safe" type of game where the Dev's probably weren't sure if it would be successful or not. 

It was really unnecessary for the series to be rehashed for the 3rd time since Nintendo remade Star Fox 64 back in 2011. Im not a big fan of remakes but man was that game fun & polished. They could have just made SFU take place after 64 with improved character backstory and multiplayer.

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Animal Pilot    10
Animal Pilot
6 hours ago, Patch93 said:

Problem is, we don't know if the anime is canon or not.

 

The anime was released as a tie-in to the game, and follows the same storyline as the first level down to the letter. It even sets up the big secret that Pepper and Peppy are hiding from a few years back in the original Star Fox days.

If Nintendo Power comics are considered canon, then I'd say this is pretty damn canonical by every reasonable measure imaginable. Even if it somehow wasn't, the reboot status of Zero isn't in doubt. 

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Robert Monroe    718
Robert Monroe
15 minutes ago, Joseph. said:

So basically Zero was a "lets play it safe" type of game where the Dev's probably weren't sure if it would be successful or not. 

It was really unnecessary for the series to be rehashed for the 3rd time since Nintendo remade Star Fox 64 back in 2011. Im not a big fan of remakes but man was that game fun & polished. They could have just made SFU take place after 64 with improved character backstory and multiplayer.

After the tanking Starfox as a series took, playing it safe is what the franchise needed. SF64 3D doesn't really count since its just reintroducing an old game where as Zero is a fresh new start.

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