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fox1235

History of Starfox fandom

119 posts in this topic

DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

History of the US SF fandom in a nutshell (as I remember it):

Once upon a time, there was Papetoon. If memory serves, Papetoon was the first major English-language SF community (if it wasn't the first, it was close to it).

Papetoon was named after the planet Fox lived on according to the Itoh comic.

I want to say it pre-dated SF64, but I could be wrong. I wasn't around for Papetoon.

"Mouth Off" was the name of the forum.

It eventually descended into flame war.

Starfox.org was formed by former members, and with it came the Mouth Off refugee camp: http://web.archive.org/web/19991006025410/disc.server.com/Indices/39145.html (Old school web forum! Most of the posts are not in the archive)

The refugee camp died when SF.org's admins lost interest. 1999, I think.

Starfox.org came back in 2000, but dropped the "mouth off" title from it's forum, and began using modern forum software.

Around this time, a rift had developed in the fandom. The followers of Puffy Wulf, creator of the Star Fox Database, followed him to sfx64.com, and it's board, "Outside the Great Fox" or OTG. I joined OTG as my first SF community a couple of months after it's founding. A few months later, I joined starfox.org.

Sf.org eventually either merged into or all the members went to lylat.net under NeoPhoenixTE.

This was the beginning of the end of the golden-era of the fandom.

When SFAd came out, there was a mass exodus at both sites, mainly caused by a new type of SF fan: the Krystal fanboy.

lylat.net became elitist quick. They shunned SFAd fans, and, well, anyone who wasn't around from the mouth-off days. Eventually one of their admins went nuts and deleted all of the posts and boards. No one had a backup, and no one was willing to rebuild. The original SF community was now dead.

There was an attempt to revive starfox.org, but it didn't take off.

OTG survives to this day, but shortly after SFAd came out, it descended into flames. OTG had only a single admin, who lost interest, yet still to this day pays for hosting and domain.... The flames got bad, and mods were appointed, but some people got butthurt that they weren't chosen, and instead of saying "sorry, not everyone can be mod," the admin appointed no one. OTG is for all intents and purposes dead. Another mass exodus occurred. Even I left, joining a couple of startups known as Arwing Landing and StarFox-Online. A handful of people hang around OTG, but they are pretty hostile to anyone not in their circle.

But around this time, BondFan and StealthFox were creating sites of their own. I don't remember either of them from OTG or lylat.net. If anyone knows if either of them were at Mouth-Off or the refugee camp, please speak up. Smaller sites also popped-up since these events.

StealthFox founded ArwingLanding.net. AL has had some slow and rough periods, but has remained relatively stable compared to the other fansites, and survives to this day.

BondFan founded StarFox-Online.com. SFO lasted for a while, but eventually the domain was allowed to expire.

There were talks of an AL-SFO merger at one point before the domain expired, but it fell through.

Mr. Krystal and Myself stepped in just in time to save the community from failure. Unable to obtain the starfox-online.com domain until 2009, starfox-online.net was created and survives to this day (as you know :-P ). In 2009, the starfox-online.com domain was released from the parker, and I purchased it, redirecting it to the .net site.

There were talks of an AL-SFO merger at one point, but it fell through.

AL has more older fans, while we here have a lot of newer fans.

There are other sites, starwingHQ, comes to mind, but from what I can tell, SFO and AL are the current largest and most active dedicated SF communities.

The fates of the domains starfox.org and lylat.net are abandonment, IE parked. ( http://www.starfox.org http://www.lylat.net )

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Kursed    10
Kursed

sheesh I'm amazed at how much fuss there is over Krystal and sfad...

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

This is why I am wholly against genre shifts. I saw that shit go down.

These people were fans of Star Fox in large part because it was a space shooter.

SFAd was not an space shooter, and the poorly designed Arwing levels were taken as an insult by many.

The addition of Krystal retconned out what many had believed was Fox's love interest, Fara. That was established canon in the eyes of those who had been around since Papetoon. Add the fact that the way Krystal was dressed in that game brought yiff-seekers, and you can see why the hostility towards her in older fans exists.

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Kursed    10
Kursed

This is why I am wholly against genre shifts. I saw that shit go down.

These people were fans of Star Fox in large part because it was a space shooter.

SFAd was not an space shooter, and the poorly designed Arwing levels were taken as an insult by many.

The addition of Krystal retconned out what many had believed was Fox's love interest, Fara. That was established canon in the eyes of those who had been around since Papetoon. Add the fact that the way Krystal was dressed in that game brought yiff-seekers, and you can see why the hostility towards her in older fans exists.

You gotta hate the yiff and like the true character her clothes were desined to go with the setting.

Why isn't there any Fara Yiff or Miyu or fay yiff?

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Mr. Foxer    0
Mr. Foxer

You gotta hate the yiff and like the true character her clothes were desined to go with the setting.

Why isn't there any Fara Yiff or Miyu or fay yiff?

There's porn of everything, don't be so sure.

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Showtime 1-1    11
Showtime 1-1

It's a shame that the genre shift did that to the community, I guess it just shows that you can't surprise people too much or they'll just get scared.

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

You gotta hate the yiff and like the true character her clothes were desined to go with the setting.

That's beside the point. Imagine being in a community that has a lot of internal respect for itself, and then have a bunch of n00bs come in and say "Krystal is hot! I want to -F-Bomb- her!"

The community hated that, and became xenophobic. I saw it with my own eyes.

Why isn't there any Fara Yiff or Miyu or fay yiff?

I have had the misfortune of seeing all three. But, there isn't nearly as much as Krystal. Fara was never shown in skimpy clothes (though she did wear a tight bodysuit...), and Fay and Miyu A: had little exposure due to SF2's cancellation, and B: we only saw their faces.

Regardless of Rare's reason for dressing her like they did, that clothing design played a major role in Krystal becoming a Yiff Slut (Yes, I said it) in the eyes of the furries. If Krystal had always worn her SFAs clothing, she would not be the sex icon she is.

Now, I don't hate Krystal, nor do I think she is a slutty character. The yiff community ran off with her, yes, but canonically, it is obvious she isn't a slut.

What I don't like is that she attracted these people into the SF fandom. Yes, there were always people like that there (IE Seppel. Seppel was active at starfox.org, and has gone on to create a yiff card game O_o ), but they weren't as common or open about it. Well... Now that I think of it, Seppel was pretty open about it lol. He became (in)famous for a flash he did playing SF64 quotes to match various pieces of yiff art. If you could tolerate the yiff, it was funny, in a sick sort of way.

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Kursed    10
Kursed

That's beside the point. Imagine being in a community that has a lot of internal respect for itself, and then have a bunch of n00bs come in and say "Krystal is hot! I want to -F-Bomb- her!"

The community hated that, and became xenophobic. I saw it with my own eyes.

I have had the misfortune of seeing all three. But, there isn't nearly as much as Krystal. Fara was never shown in skimpy clothes (though she did wear a tight bodysuit...), and Fay and Miyu A: had little exposure due to SF2's cancellation, and B: we only saw their faces.

Regardless of Rare's reason for dressing her like they did, that clothing design played a major role in Krystal becoming a Yiff Slut (Yes, I said it) in the eyes of the furries. If Krystal had always worn her SFAs clothing, she would not be the sex icon she is.

Well Regaurdless Dz those peopel who do that crap are  jerks and have no right to be doing what they are doing.

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

But that doesn't change the fact that they did, and diluted the community in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them at all. I didn't like it anymore than you do.

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Kursed    10
Kursed

But that doesn't change the fact that they did, and diluted the community in the process.

Then why did they let it bug them? what we need to to is 'shun' the peopel that support that istead of breaking up because of it.

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

How would you feel if you had to read several posts like that a day?

When SFAd launched, it was like that for a while.

It got old and annoying really fast, and in the eyes of those who had been there for years, it looked as if that was the future of the fandom. They didn't want that and either left or shunned the idiots.

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Kursed    10
Kursed

How would you feel if you had to read several posts like that a day?

When SFAd launched, it was like that for a while.

It got old and annoying really fast, and in the eyes of those who had been there for years, it looked as if that was the future of the fandom. They didn't want that and either left or shunned the idiots.

very sick and i'd be rapdily using the report button ,but the point here is we need to stop tolerating it.  i belive theres a krystal fan site mr.k goes to that has a nude  art section I persoonnly hated this section why do we let it be there we need to show to the Starfox fandom that the yiff is for people who don't belive in starfox for people wo would rather be alone  we need to show them that this crap is not cool that it's exaclty like the truth of illegal drugs.

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Guest Julius Quasar   
Guest Julius Quasar

This is why I am wholly against genre shifts. I saw that shit go down.

These people were fans of Star Fox in large part because it was a space shooter.

SFAd was not an space shooter, and the poorly designed Arwing levels were taken as an insult by many.

The addition of Krystal retconned out what many had believed was Fox's love interest, Fara. That was established canon in the eyes of those who had been around since Papetoon. Add the fact that the way Krystal was dressed in that game brought yiff-seekers, and you can see why the hostility towards her in older fans exists.

Some fans are such maniacs, closed minded extremists, who hate anything different from the norm.  They get bitter, mean, and resentful towards anyone who likes what they hate, and these rabid old school fans turn into dicks, castigating anyone who is different from them.  I can understand the

Imagine being in a community that has a lot of internal respect for itself, and then have a bunch of n00bs come in and say "Krystal is hot! I want to -F-Bomb- her!"

The community hated that, and became xenophobic. I saw it with my own eyes.

I have had the misfortune of seeing all three. But, there isn't nearly as much as Krystal. Fara was never shown in skimpy clothes (though she did wear a tight bodysuit...), and Fay and Miyu A: had little exposure due to SF2's cancellation, and B: we only saw their faces.

The yiff community ran off with her...

What I don't like is that she attracted these people into the SF fandom. Yes, there were always people like that there

would piss off the fans,

but just simply being a fan of Krystal, or heck, even a fan of SF Command, shouldn't make you a flame target.  Any fan who bullies and flames another fan who happens to be a fan of a [controversial] genre shift/alternate reality/change gives the rest of the fans a bad name.

I don't like genre shifts if they are poorly handled/executed, but I'm [for the most part] an open minded enough guy to tolerate other people's tastes...(within reason).

Krystal's great, but I wish she had been introduced into the series in a better way....

even SF-Command could have been better, if the plot was written better, and general dynamics were designed better.

But that doesn't change the fact that they did, and diluted the community in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them at all. I didn't like it anymore than you do.

Yiffers can sometimes bug the hell outta me, but I just ignore their posts and pictures.  I sure as hell ignore the trolls (other than anonymously reporting them)...

I hate the people who cause flamewars, the elitists, and those stupid asshats who hang around web forums and

are pretty hostile to anyone not in their circle.

That kills web communities, I've left countless web communities and burned several online bridges because of jackasses like that.

How would you feel if you had to read several posts like that a day?

When SFAd launched, it was like that for a while.

It got old and annoying really fast, and in the eyes of those who had been there for years, it looked as if that was the future of the fandom. They didn't want that and either left or shunned the idiots.

Yeah, I've seen stuff like someone posting something like:

"I wanna tickle Krystal's belly-button from the inside..."

...IMO, it's better not to reply to it.

I don't castigate anyone for liking Krystal, nor do I flame/insult them.

What I'm trying to say mainly, is, I agree with both you both, DZ and Kursed...

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Guest FoXXX   
Guest FoXXX

But that doesn't change the fact that they did, and diluted the community in the process.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending them at all. I didn't like it anymore than you do.

That's too bad :(

"I wanna tickle Krystal's belly-button from the inside..."

LOL

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Asper Sarnoff    29
Asper Sarnoff

This was really some interesting reading. Credits to Phenom64 for creating the topic, and to DZ for coming with all this info.

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Zicka    1
Zicka

Maaaan.

Back in the day when we proudly went to school with blueprint drawings of Arwings on our school binder covers. The epic forum roleplays, the actually intelligent fanfictions and comics and fanart. Back when Starfox was loved for it's gameplay, and not for the fact that it had animal people in it. Those were truly the golden days.

Then Rare came along and smushed a cancelled N64 game in with starfox, made one of the main characters a mere damsel in distress and removed most of her clothes. That attracted you little snots (I say this with the upmost affection. <3) and overran the place. The true essence of Starfox died the day Adventures came out.

It's like a little teenage girl running into a group of sophisticated Tolkein enthusiasts and exclaiming. "Hay gus i like orlando bloom too lol"

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Falcory    5
Falcory

In particular I think some of the older SF fans need to chill a little bit and try not to hold onto it so much.

People are always gonna say: "Hey dude! I wanna nail that Tomb Raider chick!" Or "Dude! That Zero Suit Samus is so F-bombing HAWT!!"

A lot of things in the media go through this. It's just the sick perverted mindset of the world. This doesn't mean however that a new character (Krystal) is to blame. People where making perverted jokes of Starfox before she came along to be honest, and really the ONLY reason Krystal is seen so much in the yiff community was because a lot of people were inclined to play Adventures. So she got popular. A lot of people didn't really know about Katt. People hardly knew about Fay and Miyu. And hell I MYSELF didn't really even hear of Fara, till I started going to some Starfox sites. Krystal was just the first furry female anthro to get popular in the SF series, and basically even though some people attribute her "Sex" appeal to the Adventures outfit, the popularity was really all she needed.

Now about the Genre shift....Starfox fans are just a little too complainy with this. Nuff said.

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Guest Julius Quasar   
Guest Julius Quasar

In particular I think some of the older SF fans need to chill a little bit and try not to hold onto it so much.

People are always gonna say: "Hey dude! I wanna nail that Tomb Raider chick!" Or "Dude! That Zero Suit Samus is so F-bombing HAWT!!"

A lot of things in the media go through this. It's just the sick perverted mindset of the world. This doesn't mean however that a new character (Krystal) is to blame. People where making perverted jokes of Starfox before she came along to be honest, and really the ONLY reason Krystal is seen so much in the yiff community was because a lot of people were inclined to play Adventures. So she got popular. A lot of people didn't really know about Katt. People hardly knew about Fay and Miyu. And hell and I MYSELF didn't really even hear of Fara, till I started going to some Starfox sites. Krystal was just the first furry female anthro to get popular in the SF series, and basically even though some people attribute her "Sex" appeal to the Adventures outfit, the popularity was really all she needed.

Now about the Genre shift....Starfox fans are just a little too complainy with this. Nuff said.

^ This.

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Kursed    10
Kursed

Ditto ,but I have to ask if their not willing to stay with a series because of a simpe genre shift because somebody had to barge into another project were they real fans at all?

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

In particular I think some of the older SF fans need to chill a little bit and try not to hold onto it so much.

People are always gonna say: "Hey dude! I wanna nail that Tomb Raider chick!" Or "Dude! That Zero Suit Samus is so F-bombing HAWT!!"

A lot of things in the media go through this. It's just the sick perverted mindset of the world. This doesn't mean however that a new character (Krystal) is to blame. People where making perverted jokes of Starfox before she came along to be honest, and really the ONLY reason Krystal is seen so much in the yiff community was because a lot of people were inclined to play Adventures. So she got popular. A lot of people didn't really know about Katt. People hardly knew about Fay and Miyu. And hell I MYSELF didn't really even hear of Fara, till I started going to some Starfox sites. Krystal was just the first furry female anthro to get popular in the SF series, and basically even though some people attribute her "Sex" appeal to the Adventures outfit, the popularity was really all she needed.

Now about the Genre shift....Starfox fans are just a little too complainy with this. Nuff said.

The new Krystal "fans" were only part of the equation.

A lot of people played SF64. It was the launch week record holder for a while.  There WAS stuff like that (IE Seppel) for SF64 characters, but it didn't damage the community at the time.

Timing is everything. An influx of people like this combined with a fan rejection of the direction the series was going in led to the exodus.

Saying that older fans are "too complainy" misses the point, and is an ad hominem attack on us older fans rather than being a rebuttal of our arguments. I don't appreciate it.

The point is this: We got into Star Fox in-part because it was a space shooter and in-part because the anthro characters appealed to us.  These are not singular reasons to a lot of us. It's an AND, not an OR.

Making a Star Fox dungeon adventure game is like making a Zelda vehicular combat game. Zelda fans would be pissed. Would you call them "too complainy?"

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Kursed    10
Kursed

Well maybe nintendo should have kept thier buisness in their own instead of Into Rare's.

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DZComposer    2,305
DZComposer

I agree. Dinosaur Planet should have been Dinosaur Planet, and Star Fox should have stayed out of it.

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Starfox mccloud15    0
Starfox mccloud15

sheesh I'm amazed at how much fuss there is over Krystal and sfad...

yes Kursed... :(

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