Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Well, this thread may be a result of my own ignorance, but I was wonderingif there are ever any mentions of other star systems besides Lylatin any Star Fox media (games, manga, etc.)Surely there must be at least *some* interstellar communication going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 According to F-Zero, the Solar System. By extention of the Nintendo Scifi canon, the systems in Metroid can be included too (but who knows how many there are of those). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Not sure if I want to mix Starfox with canon from Metroid or F-zero. But, I do think it would make sense if Cerenia was in a neighbouring star system. As there seemingly wasn't much, if any, contact between the inhabitants of Lylat and Cerenia before it was destroyed. Sauria on the other hand, it was confirmed in one of the Player Guides (don't know if it was for Adventures or Assault) that it was in the same orbit as Corneria, only constantly on the opposite side of Lylats star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, if there are no connections between different series at all, then they are in different universes.And wouldn't multiple planets sharing an orbit be a problem waiting to happen? Even if one planet in the orbit moves one meter per second faster than the other planet in the same orbit, then an eventual collision is inevitable.Let's do an example!Planet 1 and Planet 2 share the same orbit around a star.The circumference (length) of the entire orbit is one billion kilometers.Also, Planet is located directly opposite of Planet 2 initially.This means that the two planets are initially 500 million kilometers apart in the orbit.Now, let's say the orbit velocity of Planet 1 is 100 kilometers per second.Planet 2's orbit velocity we'll make just slightly higher. Say 100.001 kilometers per second.In other words, Planet 2 is moving one meter per second faster than Planet 1.Every second, Planet 2 gains a meter on Planet 1, and the distance is reduced.Initially, the distance is 500 million kilometers, or 500 billion meters.At a one meter per second closing of the 500 billion meter gap,It will take 500 billion seconds for a collision to occur at this rate.This time converts to 15,844 years, 16 days, 53 minutes, and 20 seconds until impact.While this may seem like forever, it's a VERY short period of time in geologic terms.And this is from just a one meter per second difference in velocity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 As far as I'm concerned, if there are no connections between different series at all, then they are in different universes.And wouldn't multiple planets sharing an orbit be a problem waiting to happen? Even if one planet in the orbit moves one meter per second faster than the other planet in the same orbit, then an eventual collision is inevitable.Let's do an example!Planet 1 and Planet 2 share the same orbit around a star.The circumference (length) of the entire orbit is one billion kilometers.Also, Planet is located directly opposite of Planet 2 initially.This means that the two planets are initially 500 million kilometers apart in the orbit.Now, let's say the orbit velocity of Planet 1 is 100 kilometers per second.Planet 2's orbit velocity we'll make just slightly higher. Say 100.001 kilometers per second.In other words, Planet 2 is moving one meter per second faster than Planet 1.Every second, Planet 2 gains a meter on Planet 1, and the distance is reduced.Initially, the distance is 500 million kilometers, or 500 billion meters.At a one meter per second closing of the 500 billion meter gap,It will take 500 billion seconds for a collision to occur at this rate.This time converts to 15,844 years, 16 days, 53 minutes, and 20 seconds until impact.While this may seem like forever, it's a VERY short period of time in geologic terms.And this is from just a one meter per second difference in velocity.I know. But then, Starfox is games that makes less sense the more you think about them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 10, 2010 Author Share Posted June 10, 2010 Well, in that case we could say that Sauria is held together by magic and maintains the exact same orbit velocity as Corneria because of said magicand be done with it.I tend to turn everything into a scientific analysis, whether it's fictional or not.I just find that kind of stuff fun. Anyway, it would make sense that Cerinia would be in a neighboring system, but I haven't seen any evidence of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fox Runner Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Well, according to the Japanese version of Command, when Krystal became Kursed, she fled to another galaxy entirely.And guess what they named it? The Krazoa Galaxy. You think they could have been a bit more creative on that one huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Starfox has sound in space.Let's leave the science at that, ok? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 11, 2010 Author Share Posted June 11, 2010 Fine with me. I was just attempting to spark a somewhat intelligent discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Fine with me. I was just attempting to spark a somewhat intelligent discussion.Ah, don't take it like that. I for one would gladly participate in such a discussion.Starfox has sound in space.Let's leave the science at that, ok?As does both Star Wars and Star Trek(I do think so? Haven't really watched any of it). Realistic space combat is simply to dull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 11, 2010 Author Share Posted June 11, 2010 Anyway, back on track...Well, according to the Japanese version of Command, when Krystal became Kursed, she fled to another galaxy entirely.And guess what they named it? The Krazoa Galaxy. You think they could have been a bit more creative on that one huh?That's interesting, though I wish you had some links or evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Ah, don't take it like that. I for one would gladly participate in such a discussion.As does both Star Wars and Star Trek(I do think so? Haven't really watched any of it). Realistic space combat is simply to dull.Calling bullshit. Realistic space combat is exciting in its own right, not to mention both of those are also unrealistic as hell.And if you REALLY want to get technical, space combat probably would never become real, as it just wouldn't be COST EFFECTIVE.Fine with me. I was just attempting to spark a somewhat intelligent discussion.You will quickly find that an attempt to use science in Starfox quickly reveals that it is scientifically impossible in just about every form. Save the intelligent talk for real stuff, like Mars colonies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Calling bullshit. Realistic space combat is exciting in its own right, not to mention both of those are also unrealistic as hell.And if you REALLY want to get technical, space combat probably would never become real, as it just wouldn't be COST EFFECTIVE.I beg to differ.I bet you the entire Galaxythat there will be trans-galacticwars in the future (Which require space combat).Fine with me. I was just attempting to spark a somewhat intelligent discussion.I like Science Fiction talks too. : Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I beg to differ.I bet you the entire Galaxythat there will be trans-galacticDo you have ANY idea what it would COST to fight in space? Any at ALL? The losses VS the gains would be so astronomically out of scale, it'd be disgusting, and it would NOT be "starfighers fighting from battleships". Wars spanning entire systems or galaxies will simply involve landing soldiers on planets or moons and fighting there. Actual SPACE combat would be ABSURD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Do you have ANY idea what it would COST to fight in space? Any at ALL? The losses VS the gains would be so astronomically out of scale, it'd be disgusting, and it would NOT be "starfighers fighting from battleships". Wars spanning entire systems or galaxies will simply involve landing soldiers on planets or moons and fighting there. Actual SPACE combat would be ABSURD.Basically, in the future manufacturing a starfighterWILL BE a LOT cheaper. That is, we will have access toother planet's resourses. We will have more manpower,and we will have better technology. Ships will not belike today, uber-costly and inefficient, but all the opposite.And actually, preventing an enemy fleet to land IS spacecombat, because technically the enemy has not landed yet,and you are still trying to prevent them from doing so.I do not know how much it will take to reach such state,though. 100 Years? 200? 500? 1000? 2500?But still, there will be wars in the future, I am sure ofit. Independence of colonies is one reason; I am surethey will not say 'oh, sure, you are independant' and giveup the colonies so easily. Inter-Racial conflicts is another things,for example. Sometimes not everything is resolved by diplomacy,as much as I would like to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Four-eyed Vulpine Posted June 11, 2010 Author Share Posted June 11, 2010 I believe I am going to abandon this thread for now.You guys can continue this discussion if you want, but I'm not in the mood for confrontation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I believe I am going to abandon this thread for now.You guys can continue this discussion if you want, but I'm not in the mood for confrontation.That is too bad.Oh well, feel free to return later if you so wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Basically, in the future manufacturing a starfighterWILL BE a LOT cheaper. That is, we will have access toother planet's resourses. We will have more manpower,and we will have better technology. Ships will not belike today, uber-costly and inefficient, but all the opposite.And actually, preventing an enemy fleet to land IS spacecombat, because technically the enemy has not landed yet,and you are still trying to prevent them from doing so.I do not know how much it will take to reach such state,though. 100 Years? 200? 500? 1000? 2500?But still, there will be wars in the future, I am sure ofit. Independence of colonies is one reason; I am surethey will not say 'oh, sure, you are independant' and giveup the colonies so easily. Inter-Racial conflicts is another things,for example. Sometimes not everything is resolved by diplomacy,as much as I would like to.Hahahahaha. So naive.No. Space is big. Space is expensive. And living in it is the ultimate test of human ability. It requries years of training to operate its equiptment. It takes years of training to get USED to living in it. Ships require constant upkeeping because if even the TOILET breaks down it can kill everyone. Space is expansive, radioactive, hostile, and the only safe haven is Earth itself. Getting OFF the planet also requires a ton of effort, and so does re-entry. Space battleships would require MASSIVE means of energy dispersal to keep cool, probably in the form of GIANT FRAGILE SOLAR PANELS. Not to mention in space, there is no stealth, and because its a vacuum, there's no friction, meaning everything impacts with 3 times its mass in TNT. A 200 pound missle hits with SIX HUNDRED POUNDS. Those fragile spaceships? They are destroyed in basically less than 5 hits. Probably only one, because all it takes is a single hull breach. Sure, you can seal bulkheads, but what if life support gets damaged? Then you're boned. And remember, these are ALL manned with EXPENSIVE ASTRONAUTS. You need a friggen PhD just to FIGHT in space, and the battles would be faught at distances of over 50 miles apart, so you can't seen SEE who you're fighting with, and its all over in a SINGLE HIT, ending the lives of who knows how many men who just spent the past 8 years getting a PhD to fight in space only to DIE.Also, starfighters? Remove the human element and the fuel required to pilot the ship, and replace all that with explosives, and fire it right into the enemy's battleship hull. Boom, giant ass missle, much more cost effective than the silly starfighter.Fighting in space is just a ridiculous concept. Its not about the politics, its about the BATSHIT ABSURDITY of making it WORK. You'd be better off trying to wage war in scuba suits and harpoon guns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I am talking about THE FUTURE, FAR FUTURE.Not yet. We a NOT EVEN CLOSE.We have just begun to explore theunlimited-sized thing that is space.In the future, technologies will be better.Micro-gravity generators will allow livingin Space Stations possible. Starships will be as commonas cars are today. Additional, renewable energy sourceswill be found; THAT will be used to power the ship.Shields and armor will make your 'kamizake strike' obsolete.And anyone will be able to use personall ships, so,why the military could not use them too?Again, by no means I am talking about 'current' technology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Calling bullshit. Realistic space combat is exciting in its own right, not to mention both of those are also unrealistic as hell.Well, then I'd like you to sit down and make an experiment. Put on your favorite Sci-fi movie, or a game for that matter, involving space combat. Then pick up your remote controll, find a button with a speaker with a line over it. Push that button. De're yah go matey! Much more realistic, and lots'a fonnier as well, eh?Hehe, and try saying that to a Trekker when they pull out the "ST is more 'realistic' than SW"-point in the classic debate of which is best of those two franchises. I did just that once in a roleplay here. Don't think I got trough sadly.And if you REALLY want to get technical, space combat probably would never become real, as it just wouldn't be COST EFFECTIVE. Now it's my turn to call BS. If there's one single thing I've managed to get into the steel block I have for a brain, it's that nothing is as hopelessly unpredicable as the future. (Well, perhaps women when you think of it... J/K!)When countless experts and machinery costing millions of dollars sometimes fail to predict the weather forecast for a few days ahead, what's the chances one can have any idea on what the distant future will bring? Chaos can throw a spanner into the most well-oiled cogs of the most thorouhly thought prediction. So why so certain of this?Who knows? Perhaps we can even possibly biologically engineer and cultivate starships to grow from a small seed, worth a cent ot two, thrown into the soil and let to grow? Or we'll just die next year as a comet hits the earth and shatter it into countless fragments? Nothing is really certain, and that I think we all agree on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Who knows? Perhaps we can even possibly biologically engineer and cultivate starships to grow from a small seed, worth a cent ot two, thrown into the soil and let to grow?I would bet my left arm that is anX-COM : Apocalypse refference. Nothing is really certain, and that I think we all agree on.That is something I can agree with. :yes: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I would bet my left arm that is anX-COM : Apocalypse refference.Never heard of it really. I took the idea from the Tyranids of the Warhammer 40K universe, an alien race controlled by a hive-mind, travelling the galaxy in biological ships. Heck, even their guns are made of flesh and bone, shooting venom and nasty burrowing creatures. Also look quite similar to the Alien creatures from the film by the same name really. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpgFar out, yes I know, but I do like the concept, and the design of that race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 Never heard of it really. I took the idea from the Tyranids of the Warhammer 40K universe, an alien race controlled by a hive-mind, travelling the galaxy in biological ships. Heck, even their guns are made of flesh and bone, shooting venom and nasty burrowing creatures. Also look quite similar to the Alien creatures from the film by the same name really. http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/mediawiki/images/f/fe/Tyranids_incursions.jpgFar out, yes I know, but I do like the concept, and the design of that race.Oh dang, my left arm!And it was original! *Kidding*Yeah, I knew it was not a refferencefrom that game.Basically, the 'Alien Dimmension' has a buidlingwhere UFOs are literally grown like mushrooms,explaining why they have their characteristic'shape' and 'organic' nature. (In the game.) :wink: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted June 11, 2010 Share Posted June 11, 2010 I am talking about THE FUTURE, FAR FUTURE.Not yet. We a NOT EVEN CLOSE.We have just begun to explore theunlimited-sized thing that is space.In the future, technologies will be better.Micro-gravity generators will allow livingin Space Stations possible. Starships will be as commonas cars are today. Additional, renewable energy sourceswill be found; THAT will be used to power the ship.Shields and armor will make your 'kamizake strike' obsolete.And anyone will be able to use personall ships, so,why the military could not use them too?Again, by no means I am talking about 'current' technology.How FAR into the future are we talking about here? A thousand? Two thousand?? IF we're hypothesizing THAT far into the future, then we're not so much as hyposisizing as we are WILD MASS GEUSSING. And none of that changes the fact that space is the MOST hostile enviroment KNOWN TO MAN, and that it will barbeque you alive, boil your blood, suck the air out of your lungs, and ANYthing that causes depressurization is going to be an almost garunteed failure of the entire ship. Space is cruel, and we are so very, very fragile.Well, then I'd like you to sit down and make an experiment. Put on your favorite Sci-fi movie, or a game for that matter, involving space combat. Then pick up your remote controll, find a button with a speaker with a line over it. Push that button. De're yah go matey! Much more realistic, and lots'a fonnier as well, eh?I counter this with Serenity/Firefly, Dead Space, the Battlestar Galactica remake (I think), all of which had realistic (to a degree or another), soundless space battles. The eerie silence in fact enhances the action, and works even better when with a good musical soundtrack. Silent space works, I've witnessed it first hand, to the point where I'm actually more used to silent space, and seeing sound in movies like Star Wars some what jars me.Hehe, and try saying that to a Trekker when they pull out the "ST is more 'realistic' than SW"-point in the classic debate of which is best of those two franchises. I did just that once in a roleplay here. Don't think I got trough sadly. Now it's my turn to call BS. If there's one single thing I've managed to get into the steel block I have for a brain, it's that nothing is as hopelessly unpredicable as the future. (Well, perhaps women when you think of it... J/K!)When countless experts and machinery costing millions of dollars sometimes fail to predict the weather forecast for a few days ahead, what's the chances one can have any idea on what the distant future will bring? Chaos can throw a spanner into the most well-oiled cogs of the most thorouhly thought prediction. So why so certain of this?Who knows? Perhaps we can even possibly biologically engineer and cultivate starships to grow from a small seed, worth a cent ot two, thrown into the soil and let to grow? Or we'll just die next year as a comet hits the earth and shatter it into countless fragments? Nothing is really certain, and that I think we all agree on.Well, trekkies are typically hardheaded, so I ignore them. But any series where a blow to the hull results in the bridge sparking up like the fourth of July ain't got much in terms of sensibility.The future is unpredictible, but also follows a steady course, not to mention space is never going to change. Ok, maybe sure, ONE DAY, we'll discover adamantium mines on planet X and be able to make spaceships that can actually take a few hits, an maybe one day we find some crazy reason to actually validate the need of a "close range fighter" craft in a damn vaccuum, but that's beyond hypothetical science. The Roman Empire did not magically become the British one, it took over a thousand years to get there, and in the mean time while technology DID advance, it was mostly SIMILAR. There were still swords, just a little better. Still armor, just a little better. The same basics applied, just a little better, and that is what I am talking about. Space travel for probably the next 200 to 500 years is going to be absolutely insane to try and use for fighting, and this is just the surface of the problem. You still have ethics, and of course side affects (a ship exploding at a hundred miles an hour is now entering Earth's atmosphere, enjoy your widespread damage), and a multitude of other things. The "unpredictible future" is not an arguement, its a copout.Also, biological ships are silly. I read this interesting article once that debunked them rather well, but basically cellular tissue, while amazingly strong in proportion to its size, does not hold up to metal and such when scaled up in size... not to mention you have to use cells that are immune to solar radiation and the other devils of space, so unless you can bio-engineer super water bears, its not gonna happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest DRL Posted June 12, 2010 Share Posted June 12, 2010 Well, you also forgot breakthroughs.After the Catholic Roman Empire Europewent into a downright decline, as every 'scientist'of the time was murdered by the Cristians of Rome.I an not talking about a specific day in the future,but if I have to say, I will say that ~100 or more years from now.We have just the technology to build a bare spacefaring ship;that is why, TODAY, such 'space combat' would be ineffective - becausethere is simply not the technology and/or knowledge to build/desing it.There are no 'efficient' renewable sources - of WHICH WILL be discovered in the future -that can be used to power it.But you just wait.Quoting a history book I have:"[...]Over time, things that seem 'impossible' become'improvably' and 'improvably' becomes 'probably' and 'probably'becomes 'possible'. We just have to wait; the time itself makesall 'miracles' into 'reality'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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