Faisul Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Xortberg gets it. The bull being a 'brave and noble combatant in the field of battle, getting a royal pardon, then living a life of luxury knowing full well its battle prowess has scored it a life among hot cow babes' is a completely irrelevant point in the argument, because the bull just doesn't know what the actual fuck is being done to it or why. It goes from 'nom lovely grass' to 'hey lots of people this is scary' to 'WHAT IS HAPPENING HURTING THINGS EVERYWHERE; PURE TERROR', and even that might be a gross anthropomorphization of the bull's cognitive abilities. It simply doesn't comprehend and that makes killing it in the way the matador and his cronies do in the ring even more disgusting. And likening carnival and baseball to a bloodsport is a little bit weak. Sure, the cultural affinity might be the same, but showing up to public executions used to be pretty popular too, and people would often comment on 'the art and grace' of an executioner bringing the death sentence to its conclusion. You could even buy tickets to these things in certain places in the world. By our modern sensibilities, that's absolutely horrifying - and so is bullfighting, the only difference being, the executioner is not killing a human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vy'drach Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 In a way, I feel that, if you ban bullfighting, it'd be like banning Carnival in Brazil or Baseball in the US. Sure, they all have their haters and/or people who hate to be associated with it just beacuse its nationality. Also, one can live without any of it? Sure, but it would still have a deep impact on the cultural value of the country. My say is, should be kept in it's mayority in Spain, and in case of international fights, it should be regulated by Spanish authorities most of the times. Also, look at this fact: "In Portugal, it is illegal to kill a bull in the arena, so it is removed and slaughtered in the pens as fighting bulls can only be used once." "Very rarely, if the public or the matador believe that the bull has fought extremely bravely, they may petition the president of the event to grant the bull a pardon (indulto) and if granted the bull's life is spared and it is allowed to leave the ring alive and return to the ranch where it came from. Then the bull becomes a stud bull for the rest of its life." I would like to point out that there are several countries and regions out there (some I believe in Spain, as well) where bullfighting in the traditional sense is banned, and they have alternatives where no harm comes to the bull at all. People will still get hurt now and again, but not the bull, barring it tripping and breaking a leg or something. I mentioned one before where anyone from the stands can come down and try to pluck a bauble off the bull's horns, and another variation is where they have people perform acrobatics around the bull, such as dodging the bull by jumping up and balancing on a pole. Those are accepted as bullfighting, and still draw in large crowds. The difference is, however, that no creature is intentionally harmed simply for the amusement of the crowd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZM Anonymous Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 On one hand, animal rights activists can be happy when bullfighting does get abolished globally, on the other hand, a race's culture will have dirty looks thrown at them and be treated like dirt and be ridiculed off the face of the earth because some of them had enjoyed bullfighting. Cultural differences, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 America enjoyed having slaves. We got over it. So can the Spanish. I would like to point out that there are several countries and regions out there (some I believe in Spain, as well) where bullfighting in the traditional sense is banned, and they have alternatives where no harm comes to the bull at all. People will still get hurt now and again, but not the bull, barring it tripping and breaking a leg or something. I mentioned one before where anyone from the stands can come down and try to pluck a bauble off the bull's horns, and another variation is where they have people perform acrobatics around the bull, such as dodging the bull by jumping up and balancing on a pole. Those are accepted as bullfighting, and still draw in large crowds. The difference is, however, that no creature is intentionally harmed simply for the amusement of the crowd. That's quite a bit better, but it's still quite cruel in my humble opinion. Still, I'd take it over torturing and killing any day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vy'drach Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 No more cruel than rodeos where they tie up the bull's genitals to get it to kick and buck more. All they really do with the other types of bullfighting is let the bull run around the arena, and bulls are reused so I imagine they get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 On one hand, animal rights activists can be happy when bullfighting does get abolished globally, on the other hand, a race's culture will have dirty looks thrown at them and be treated like dirt and be ridiculed off the face of the earth because some of them had enjoyed bullfighting. No, no one is going to redicule all Spanish people off the face of the Earth because a few of them liked bullfighting. I don't randomly hate all black people or football players or whatever because Michael Vick was engaged in dogfighting. You can hate a thing a culture happens to do without letting that disapproval seep into everything else about them, because hey, not everyone thinks in absolute black-and-white extremes. Abolishing bullfighting won't make Spain vanish off the face of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faisul Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 In fact the reasoning behind 'Oh, you must hate Spanish culture if you hate bullfighting, you racist!' is pretty silly. Like Dras said, certain facets of some cultures are stupid or/and horrible and it's not racist to dislike or disagree with those things. Bullfighting just so happens to be a (let's face it, pretty minor) part of the whole that makes Spanish culture what it is and disagreeing with it is not ridiculing an entire culture. Just bullfighting. Which is stupid. So yeah. Spanish culture won't die if we kill bullfighting. Just the bullfighting part of it. ¿Comprende? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harlow Posted November 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, in order to extend for a bit, a friend, who's vegetarian, told me this: "it's weird how many people are anti-bullfighting without them being vegetarian/vegan. It's like saying "I don't want the bulls to be killed this way. I prefer if they get killed that way because that way, I don't have to see the naughty bits and it benefits me directly" Do they know that not all meat is kosher?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted November 12, 2011 Report Share Posted November 12, 2011 Well, in order to extend for a bit, a friend, who's vegetarian, told me this: "it's weird how many people are anti-bullfighting without them being vegetarian/vegan. It's like saying "I don't want the bulls to be killed this way. I prefer if they get killed that way because that way, I don't have to see the naughty bits and it benefits me directly" Do they know that not all meat is kosher?" That friend of yours seems to now know too much about what happens in the bullfighting ring or in the slaughterhouse. It's about not making the animal suffer unnecesary. The standard prosedures for killing animals are a lot more humane to the bull than slowly torturing it to death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myu Posted November 13, 2011 Report Share Posted November 13, 2011 Yes, we should all become vegan/vegetarian in order to be against animal torture because it makes more sense. Well, your friend's assuming that people in this thread don't go out of their way to find meat that's kosher (I'm pretty sure that isn't the case, but still) and it feels like she's up on a soap box preaching to those of us who eat meat :l . I'm also fairly sure that the people in this thread know about kosher and non-kosher. You can care about an animal's well-being without being vegan/vegetarian. That's like saying a veterinarian has to vegan/vegetarian in order to want to save animal's lives. It doesn't make sense. "I don't want the bulls to be killed this way. I prefer if they get killed that way because that way, I don't have to see the naughty bits and it benefits me directly" Besides, I don't think anyone has actually said that. No one has said anything about it benefiting them, directly or indirect, etc. I think the main argument here is how cruel bullfighting is to the bull, not that it should be stopped because it's cruel and makes us feel bad for eating meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vy'drach Posted November 16, 2011 Report Share Posted November 16, 2011 Well, in order to extend for a bit, a friend, who's vegetarian, told me this: "it's weird how many people are anti-bullfighting without them being vegetarian/vegan. It's like saying "I don't want the bulls to be killed this way. I prefer if they get killed that way because that way, I don't have to see the naughty bits and it benefits me directly" Do they know that not all meat is kosher?" Don't know what the kosher meat part has to do with his argument, as the preparation of kosher meat is actually more cruel than non-kosher. With kosher, they put the cow into a big machine that flips it upside down, so they can slit its throat, then they release it into the general area as it wanders around bleeding to death. I avoid kosher meat whenever I can as I much prefer if the animal was killed by a good swift sledgehammer strike to the head. About as instant as you can make it there. Contrary to popular belief and hollywood cinema, a slit throat is not instantly fatal, as humans have been known to survive for over five minutes with one. And as others have said, it's not about the animal dying, it's about the animal enduring undue suffering and torment, which bullfighting provides, while a sledgehammer to the head does not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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