TCPeppyTc

Fanfic dissapointment

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unoservix

and yet all i was really doing was objecting to Victor's insinuation that Sturgeon's Law somehow doesn't apply to Star Fox

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Drasiana

I read that Fox/Wolf one and it's basically every yaoi fanfic ever so I'm not sure what makes this one "unyaoi" as opposed to them

And that's kind of my problem with not just Star Fox fanfic but fanfic in general, if you've read one you've read them all. They're not particularily bad, they're just the same thing over and over again

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myu

I just read that one too, actually. Well, part of it. Stopped at the beginning of chapter 6 or so because it's basically just, YOU HAVE THIS MANY DAYS TO GET INTO WOLF'S PANTS/LET HIM INTO YOURS. The only thing that sets it apart from other yaoi stuff is that they don't get it on in the first chapter. Everyone aside from Fox and Wolf were really just accessories as far as I saw, and the story wouldn't have lost anything if they were taken out completely. I also took a peek at the others and they were kind of bland. I couldn't stick with them long enough to get too immersed in whatever plot was there.

At this point, I'm curious, what constitutes good fan fiction for you guys?

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TCPeppyTc

But Dras!

There is a new Starfox fanfic out there! It is about a sassy and tough pink avian fan character. She is a mercenary who becomes the next member of the Starfox Team! After she joins the team, they get sent to a different dimension! The Star Wars one!

...maybe not the same thing over and over again....

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chaos_Leader

I read that Fox/Wolf one and it's basically every yaoi fanfic ever so I'm not sure what makes this one "unyaoi" as opposed to them

It's not "unyaoi" per-se, it just deals with the issues at hand in a mature, civilized manner. In my view, it's the one and only fic I've ever read on the subject that didn't make me want to vomit. That's why it made my short list.

And that's kind of my problem with not just Star Fox fanfic but fanfic in general, if you've read one you've read them all. They're not particularily bad, they're just the same thing over and over again

That's a cynical but unfortunately justified position have about fanfiction, and I heartily agree with it. Having said that, there are writers out there working to buck this ubiquitous stigma, few and far between they may be.

At this point, I'm curious, what constitutes good fan fiction for you guys?

Similar criteria for good writing in general, really. There are some other things though, I'll see if I can pin down those deviations here...

- Inventiveness: I've aleady made my peace that there are no more original stories, fanfiction or otherwise. It's not neccesarily about "is this something new?" for me, but "how do they handle it?" Can the writer take situation X, whatever it may be, and work with it in the context of their source material to deliver a compelling story? Can they weave a world around what they've been given and capture my attention? Then that trails off into a whole muggy realm of subjectivity.

Then again, there are many who'd argue that "good fanfiction" is an oxymoronic paradox as it is.

That's what I got.

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Drasiana

It's not "unyaoi" per-se, it just deals with the issues at hand in a mature, civilized manner. In my view, it's the one and only fic I've ever read on the subject that didn't make me want to vomit. That's why it made my short list.

Except it's basically every slash fanfic ever; not just Star Fox, but every fandom that has ever existed. I'm willing to bet that I've read more slashfic than you and this brings absolutely nothing new to the table. The fact that this fic includes a line that goes "It's times like this I'm glad I'm gay" didn't help, nor did the badly-formatted IM chat logs where Falco cutesily bugs Fox about being gay as if they were thirteen year old fangirls. It's like a textbook example of every fanfiction where characters who are normally rivals have a thing for each other. There's even a "romantic beach scene" ffs.

That's a cynical but unfortunately justified position have about fanfiction, and I heartily agree with it. Having said that, there are writers out there working to buck this ubiquitous stigma, few and far between they may be.

Please continue to point these out, because the ones you've already sent us are just rehashes of the same tired plots that every fandom has seen forever.

They also suffered from a huge pet peeve that can deter me from a Star Fox fanfiction after one chapter: constantly referring to a character's species. No, I don't need to be constantly reminded that FOX MCCLOUD is a "vulpine", or that Falco is a "blue-hued avian" or that Wolf is "the older canine". When did it become difficult to refer to characters as he/she or, I don't know, their names?

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myu

I think that story's main problem was that it didn't feel like Fox had a choice about being gay or not. He was pigeonholed into a role he had to fill when the story could have been just as romantic, maybe even more so, if he didn't return Wolf's feelings or something. It was interesting that Fox utterly failed to live up to Wolf's perception of him, which is actually a neat thing to see these days in fan fiction (right?) but that probably wasn't the author's intention.

They also suffered from a huge pet peeve that can deter me from a Star Fox fanfiction after one chapter: constantly referring to a character's species. No, I don't need to be constantly reminded that FOX MCCLOUD is a "vulpine", or that Falco is a "blue-hued avian" or that Wolf is "the older canine". When did it become difficult to refer to characters as he/she or, I don't know, their names?

That really bugs me as well, but it seems like every writer who ever writes about anthro characters does it. I really don't know why. There was a girl in my writing class who did this, unfortunately we weren't allowed to ask people why, but she didn't change it even though the majority of the class said it was annoying.

On a side note, while inventiveness is certainly something that's nice to see in a story, if the style of writing isn't done in a compelling way, who will stick with it long enough to read it and find out? Sure, there are always those people who are willing to bear with stories even if they're presented in a bland manner, but that's pretty much why I couldn't get through more than a few paragraphs of the stories you posted. I'll admit, the writing in the Fox/Wolf one wasn't spectacular, but I mostly read it because I knew it would be funny.

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chaos_Leader

Please continue to point these out, because the ones you've already sent us are just rehashes of the same tired plots that every fandom has seen forever.

Would you believe me if I said that's easier said than done?

But anyways, don't forget that a vast majority of all published work these days can also be jotted down as "just rehashes of the same tired plots". The Monomyth, anyone? A great many of the plots used in contemporary storytelling draws their elements from other sources. Fanfiction is not much different in this respect, though it can very easily be truncated much futher. Even so, I've already made the point on where I stand on this:

I've aleady made my peace that there are no more original stories, fanfiction or otherwise. It's not neccesarily about "is this something new?" for me, but "how do they handle it?"

They also suffered from a huge pet peeve that can deter me from a Star Fox fanfiction after one chapter: constantly referring to a character's species. No, I don't need to be constantly reminded that FOX MCCLOUD is a "vulpine", or that Falco is a "blue-hued avian" or that Wolf is "the older canine". When did it become difficult to refer to characters as he/she or, I don't know, their names?

That really bugs me as well, but it seems like every writer who ever writes about anthro characters does it. I really don't know why. There was a girl in my writing class who did this, unfortunately we weren't allowed to ask people why, but she didn't change it even though the majority of the class said it was annoying.

What the hell kind of writing class is that? Where you can't even ask your classmates why they did certain things?

Anyways, I have an answer to these questions.

1) Habit

2) The habit develops because writers feel like they need to write their narration with more colorful vocabulary, with more variation than "Name, Name, Name, Name", and this is how they do it. Sometimes it might be justified, like if we don't yet know a certain character's name, but as you can see it's all too easy to abuse. It's a similar to the adverb addiction many less-than-stellar writers suffer from.

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myu

The reason was probably because everyone would have had questions and that would eat up class time and leave none for actual critiques. The writers couldn't ask their peers questions either. It was really annoying, but I guess not a huge deal because there was a lot of good critiquing done.

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Prince Elite

At this point, I'm curious, what constitutes good fan fiction for you guys?

something engaging, not mindless filler, and not mysterious drivel. a story that actually interests me with a little suspense, a little action etc. Plot elements which causes the reader to actually want to continue. Although really some books are a tailor fit. It's hard to make a book that pleases everyone, but you can try.

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Drasiana

But anyways, don't forget that a vast majority of all published work these days can also be jotted down as "just rehashes of the same tired plots". The Monomyth, anyone? A great many of the plots used in contemporary storytelling draws their elements from other sources. Fanfiction is not much different in this respect, though it can very easily be truncated much futher.

There is a difference between, say, applying the stages of the Hero's Journey to a story, and then just copypasting everything you see without even attempting to do anything new with it. Going "well NOTHING'S original!!!!" when called out on having a damn bland story is a cop-out; fanfiction (mostly in other fandoms) and original works manage to be "original" and interesting without being predictable messes of mechanically-written words. The fact that media still interests people is testament to this.

1) Habit

Well, yes. But it's a bad one and not impossible to break either.

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Guest BlueRaccoon

To Drasiana: I know you said it a while back, but you said "This isn't Star Fox-exclusive, though. Most fic writers have a distinct lack of ability to recapture the world of the original series and present it in a way believable and refreshing within the realm of that franchise." Isn't the whole point of fanfiction to put your favorite characters and environments into your own perspective? You don't really have to go with the franchise 100%, do you?

For this entire thread, I've only read the first page of replies, so I'm sorry if I missed something. There is some really good fanfiction right here in the forum. I did see one story that involved a gay Fox and Falco and I completely avoided it. That's just not their character, I'm sorry. I hope that I can add some good fanfiction to the forum. I hope they're not part of those really bad ones ya'll were talking about.

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Robert Monroe

You could also argue that if you don't follow the lore and canon of the series, then your story is meaningless and might as well just be something original.

Also Dras isn't here anymore she left a while ago AFAIK.

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Jabariboykin

Hmm, as someone who is hardly an excellent writer, i can certainly understand sifting through the piles of crap to find the good writing. Still, its out there. Que subliminal messaging! (Tobias Umbra, Tobias Umbra, Tobias Umbra...)

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sroberson

For me the biggest issue is finding COMPLETE fictions. So many of them I get hooked on and then find out that it was never finished and has no hope of ever being finished. As far as StarFox fanfic, so long as it centers around canon characters and not a lot of crossover it stands a good chance for me to read it; good or bad (of course, good fictions based on non canon characters draw me in too). I am afraid that I may fall victim to the same issue in my fiction but am trying my best not to. My biggest issue is finding inspiration and time to actually spit ball on paper and get something going.

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Jabariboykin

For me the biggest issue is finding COMPLETE fictions. So many of them I get hooked on and then find out that it was never finished and has no hope of ever being finished. As far as StarFox fanfic, so long as it centers around canon characters and not a lot of crossover it stands a good chance for me to read it; good or bad (of course, good fictions based on non canon characters draw me in too). I am afraid that I may fall victim to the same issue in my fiction but am trying my best not to. My biggest issue is finding inspiration and time to actually spit ball on paper and get something going.

I agree, inspiration is my biggest problem.

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chaos_Leader

I agree, inspiration is my biggest problem.

I always thought commitment to an idea was your issue. You've got plenty of ideas, but you're just not sticking with any of them.

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Jabariboykin

I always thought commitment to an idea was your issue. You've got plenty of ideas, but you're just not sticking with any of them.

Haha, yup thats true. If it werent for Tobias keeping me straight, who knows what id be putting out? I personally wish i didnt have so many ideas. That way i could stay focused better.

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sroberson

I usually figure if I am getting new ideas for directions the story could go or development of characters, then I wasn't really happy with the ideas that I had and should probably re-evaluate.

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Jabariboykin

I usually figure if I am getting new ideas for directions the story could go or development of characters, then I wasn't really happy with the ideas that I had and should probably re-evaluate.

You sound almost exactly like me sometimes... :)

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Ellanie

Forgive me for leaping in this discussion as late as I have, but I felt like popping in.

I did, however, notice that I am horribly guilty of abusing the species reference over just "he" or "she." My reasoning was that these characters, while technically adult males and females, its feels off to refer to an adult male bird as a "man." He's not human, he's a bird! Etc.

For me, part of the fun of writing a story involving anthro characters is the opportunity to play with the individual traits of the animal they are layered on the humanity (or lack of) we characterize them with, and I think that's where the habit spanned from for me. I never found it annoying when seeing it in fiction, and even StarFox itself is guilty of it in official material, so I never thought twice about it.

On another note, I agree with BlueRacoon on the interpretation of the universe of any canon via fan-fiction. Keyword is interpretation. While you may feel other writer's lack something you pick up on while you enjoyed the original (whether a game, movie, book, cartoon, whatever), I don't find that as failing as a writer. All it means is that writer cared more about something that you didn't, or they simply enjoy a fantasy they developed more than canon material, which is why I think so many fics revolve around really off the wall ideas and romantic pairings.

One of the best fanfics I ever read was a Sailor Moon fic that played with a character in a painful fashion, utterly tearing her down by injecting a scary part of realism that brazenly went against a huge part of what made the universe and said character so likeable and inviting. It brought forth some ideas that my more naive self didn't consider, but that aspect of the story and the stellar quality of the writing itself kept me reading up to the end.

On the inspiration note, I've habitually kept some form of notepad or sketchbook on me for, well, since I was in middle school. Heck, my phone even has a note taking app specifically for writers, and a few characters were developed via post-it note sketches at work.

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Guest BlueRaccoon

Robert Monroe: Your opinion is something I haven't thought about. There is a difference between fan-fic and an original idea. Thank you for your insight.

Ellanie: Thank you for your backup. Interpretation is really important when it comes to this kind of thing. The path I think is good is somewhere between the canon itself and an original idea. Stick to the original characters, but make something of them yourself and even add in some new ones. That's what it's about for me, anyway.

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madame bellatrix

-true, a lot of fanfiction writers are writing their personal fantasies. Thing is, their are people who share those twisted fantasies, hence stuff like slash is popular .I was getting frustrated with the lack of in depth stories, so I wrote an in depth story. Thing is, I admit to falling guilty to writing slash...but I try not to make it the central point of the story. I do not write fantasies, I write stories.now granted, there are people who will be uncomfortable with some of the content (violence being the main one), but in my mind, I piece together a tale with a coherent plot, not random fuckery (unless tor comedic purposes)

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Snys93

Sorry, its a rule not to post in threads older than two months.

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