I hope this game handles Star Wolf better than the games after 64.

[Giladen]

First off, Star Wolf in the games after 64 is too nice. The SF2 and SF64 versions are a bunch of space pirates who say foul things about Fox's dad, work for Andross, etc. Come Assault and the team is a "Pirates Who Don't Do Anything" group with "I'll save you but it's not like I want to friend you or anything" Wolf, babbling fool Leon, and goofball Panther.

 

Secondly, Star Wolf stopped working as rivals for Star Fox with how they were outnumbered by Fox's team. People in Assault and Command's development teams caught on to this, so scenarios were set so that SF would never fight SW with a full full roster. To this day, I still don't see what was stopping Andrew from being part of Wolf's team. Even with the team's goody two-shoes status in Assault and beyond, it's not like Andrew ever did anything to Fox in particular unlike Pigma. And he has yet to be anything more than a throwaway boss.

[Pgpaw3]

I could be wrong, but my understanding is that Andrew left Star Wolf of his own accord to lead the remnants of Andross' army, as seen in the first level of Assault. That said though, I think the SF64 manga might portray a different story.

 

In so far as Star Wolf being too nice now, I liked the team up thing they did as a one off, but I would like to see them return to being proper enemies/rivals as well.

[DZComposer]

First off, Star Wolf in the games after 64 is too nice. The SF2 and SF64 versions are a bunch of space pirates who say foul things about Fox's dad, work for Andross, etc. Come Assault and the team is a "Pirates Who Don't Do Anything" group with "I'll save you but it's not like I want to friend you or anything" Wolf, babbling fool Leon, and goofball Panther.

 

Secondly, Star Wolf stopped working as rivals for Star Fox with how they were outnumbered by Fox's team. People in Assault and Command's development teams caught on to this, so scenarios were set so that SF would never fight SW with a full full roster. To this day, I still don't see what was stopping Andrew from being part of Wolf's team. Even with the team's goody two-shoes status in Assault and beyond, it's not like Andrew ever did anything to Fox in particular unlike Pigma. And he has yet to be anything more than a throwaway boss.

Yeah, I'm going to have to disagree with most of what you said here.

Firstly, remember what was going on in SFAs: The Aparoids came and didn't give a flip about who was aligned with who: ALL MUST BE ASSIMILATED. That's the kind of thing that can drive people who normally fight each other to fighting as allies against the common threat. This isn't just a storytelling plot device, either. It happens in the real world. An example is the unification of Germany: All the Germanic States fought each other constantly until Prussia picked a fight with France over a lie about who was to be king of Spain (Seriously, the Franco-Prussian war has one of the most retarded causes in history) and convinced the other Germanic states, save for Austria, that they should fight together against the French.

Next, limiting Star Wolf's characters to "These guys fight you all the time" is bland and meh. They're an independent band of mercenaries who do their own thing for their own motives. Sure, this often brings them into conflict with Star Fox, but destroying Star Fox is not their primary aim. I like in SFAs how you can still tell Wolf has a disdain for Fox, yet he also has respect for him. Enough respect that he realizes Fox's value in ridding Lylat of the Aparoids.

In Star Fox Command, Star Wolf's motives are clearly self-serving. In the "now we're good guys" story track, they're not doing "good" for the sake of it, they're doing to to rid themselves of the bounties on their heads. They're anti-heroes in this case.

Next, the makeup of the team. I'll start by addressing Pigma and Andrew. Given Pigma's history, it should be no surprise that he gets kicked-off the team. SFAs makes a rather clear implication that Pigma did something that completely broke Wolf's trust and turned it into hatred. You could tell even in SF64 that Andrew didn't really "fit-in" with Star Wolf. Now this is just conjecture on my part, but I've always wondered if Andrew flying with Star Wolf was a condition of their employment by Andross. Him leaving is two-fold: 1) He doesn't "fit" with Star Wolf, and they probably even made him leave 2) He desires to rebuild his uncle's empire, not sit and watch Wolf build his own criminal empire.

Now things brings me to another of your points, regarding the numerical imbalance between Star Fox and Star Wolf. With Andrew and Pigma gone, they needed another member, so one was created in the form of Panther. Sure they could have created two new characters, but they didn't and I'm kind of glad they didn't. It goes to further my earlier point that Star Wolf's reason to exist in the universe goes beyond simply being a recurring "mirror-image" boss battle (you know these battles: the boss is usually named "Dark [insert hero's name here]"). Of course, the mission now needed to be done in a way that would prevent numerical imbalance, so they made it so you also have to worry about the hideout (though I think they could have done a MUCH better job with that).

Now, with Command the point is irrelevant entirely. Remember: by the time of Command, Star Fox doesn't exist anymore. Everyone went their separate ways until the Anglars started causing trouble. Then it was up to the player to determine the makeup of the alliance of these now freelance characters. Sure, you could "get the band back together" but you could also build a couple of new teams or play as Star Wolf themselves.

TL;DR: There's not a whole lot the SF canon does right, but Star Wolf not being only about "WE KILL YOU, FOX" is one of the few things it did do right.

[Drasiana]

^ DZ made a Good Post, though I do see where you're coming from.

 

I found it very difficult to take Star Wolf seriously in Command, as either villains or anti-heroes. They were just too damn goofy, almost to the point of incompetence, and with the complete lack of explanation as to how they got to know Star Fox or Andross to begin with, I was just left wondering why I should be caring about what these guys are doing. I think Assault was probably going for the right tone, they just goofed it up by giving us The Worst Star Wolf Battle Ever and that dorky-ass "when the time comes..." nonsense proverb.

 

Not that I'm saying that Star Wolf should be some grimdark Punisher-style antiheroes with no room for being funny EVER, but they should be handled a little less flippantly. You can make them intimidating antagonists without necessarily making them evil, and I'd like to see more of that.

[Ala1n-J]

All I want for Starwolf is that Wolf looks more like a wolf, not just a "demonized" copy of Fox's model. He should also dropped the whole Vegeta-wanabee thing, both in visual design (spiky hair, similar armor design, eyepatch/visor thingy on the left eye...) and character (I don't mind him having a grudge against Fox, but finishing each dialogue with "Remember, Fox. I'm the one that will kill you one day!" gets boring). I also would like Nintendo to tell me if Panther is supposed to be an actual panther or a cat (those slit eyes confuse me... wait, aren't foxes supposed to have slit eyes too?). Other than that, I generally agree with what DZ and Dras said.

 

Next, the makeup of the team. I'll start by addressing Pigma and Andrew. Given Pigma's history, it should be no surprise that he gets kicked-off the team. SFAs makes a rather clear implication that Pigma did something that completely broke Wolf's trust and turned it into hatred. You could tell even in SF64 that Andrew didn't really "fit-in" with Star Wolf. Now this is just conjecture on my part, but I've always wondered if Andrew flying with Star Wolf was a condition of their employment by Andross. Him leaving is two-fold: 1) He doesn't "fit" with Star Wolf, and they probably even made him leave 2) He desires to rebuild his uncle's empire, not sit and watch Wolf build his own criminal empire.

 

As for Pigma and Andrew being ejected, didn't the japanese player guide for SF64 state that Pigma manipulated Wolf to execute Andross's orders? -> http://www.reddit.com/r/translator/comments/1zmcn0/japanese_to_english_looking_for_help_with_some/ From that perspective, one can think Wolf and/or Leon realized the team was manipulated by Pigma and kicked him out the hard way, and they kicked out Andrew because he was useless and they didn't want to get into anything related to Andross anymore. Or maybe Andrew saw that coming and ran away before getting badly hurt? Just a theory.

 

Now things brings me to another of your points, regarding the numerical imbalance between Star Fox and Star Wolf. With Andrew and Pigma gone, they needed another member, so one was created in the form of Panther. Sure they could have created two new characters, but they didn't and I'm kind of glad they didn't. It goes to further my earlier point that Star Wolf's reason to exist in the universe goes beyond simply being a recurring "mirror-image" boss battle (you know these battles: the boss is usually named "Dark [insert hero's name here]"). Of course, the mission now needed to be done in a way that would prevent numerical imbalance, so they made it so you also have to worry about the hideout (though I think they could have done a MUCH better job with that).

 

I wouldn't mind the return of Algy, unless he's going to be another How-the-heck-did-Andross-have-children-to-begin-with-?! character.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Ala1n-J

[Giladen]

Pretty sure Algy and Andrew are the same character like how Jumpman and Mario are.

[Drasiana]

I'm pretty sure Andrew left Star Wolf on his own to reclaim the Venom Empire. Also yeah I think Algy was just a proto-algy, even though he was an entirely different species.

[Patch93]

You could make the same argument for Miyu and Fay being early concepts of Bill and Katt, but most people like to see them as entirely seperate characters.

 

In my headcanon, I see Andrew and Algy being brothers.

[Drasiana]

I like the idea of them being brothers, I still think Algy became Andrew though being that they had the exact same role, where Miyu/Fay and Katt/Bill had pretty different roles from one another.