ndf Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 After star fox 64, the series strayed from the arcade-shooter path and tried some new techniques-- like ground combat. All the old timer fans didn't like that, they all wanted star fox to return to it's roots. Then SFC came along, it brought the series back to the SNES days, using a star fox 2 style. ... No one liked that game either. So I'm wondering, is star fox doomed? Is there any room left for good ol' fashioned arcade-style shooters in this new 3D-free roaming gaming generation? If they go back to SF64, put Fox on all rail missions, the game'll be a flop-- no one likes it when games follow the same format over and over (for proof, take a look at the legend of zelda series-- it's always do a dungeon puzzle, find a weapon, fight the boss, kill ganon, save zelda-- I read some Twilight Princess reviews, and allotta gamers seem to be getting tired of it. That's why Nintendo said TP would be the last zelda of it's kind-- they need something fresh!) and shooter games are decreasing in popularity. But if star fox trys to go in a new direction, the assault-type direction, no one will like it because the old timers want star fox to return to it's roots. Looks like a lose-lose scenario to me. Don't get me wrong, though-- I love the series, and I hope it continues. But I'm just not sure if there's any market for that style anymore, and Nintendo seems to have abandoned the series completly. E3 has come and past, I was really hoping Nintendo would reveal star fox wii there... *sigh* maybe next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZComposer Posted August 4, 2008 Share Posted August 4, 2008 The main complaints about SFAs are it's monotonous feel (Only 4 different missions, most were the same with a different map) and general feeling of being unpolished. Like I mentioned in SFOCast, it is the direction the series needs to go, but a few more Arwing missions, variety in mission objectives and enemies, and a more finished codebase are a must. Of course it is impossible to please EVERYONE, but that is the way to bring the series back and bring in new fans. Star Fox is one of the few Nintendo franchises that could go hardcore and survive it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndf Posted August 4, 2008 Author Share Posted August 4, 2008 Yeah, command tried to please everyone and it's left us with a confusing jumble-mess. For the next game, I wanna see much more lengthy gameplay, and I want Nintendo to work on it. It's their series, dag nabbit; show it a little love! And I agree with you when you say they gotta take the series into the assault-style direction (call me crazy, but assault was my favorite star fox... That game had serious potential) and we definatly need more arwing missions-- Maybe they could even take some traits from Adventures; let us explore some of the other planets. And, uh, I don't wanna start a big issue with this, because I know some people get touchy about this subject.... but I think Krystal needs to go. The only road she can lead to is Marcus McCloud, and I really don't want the series storyline to turn into a soap opera family crap thing. Mindless sci-fi shooter ftw. I mean, the way Fox and Krystal like eachother is fine, I don't really care but they can't drag out that awkward love story forever. It'll get old. The only way they can keep Krystal in the story is if they make her Kursed. Ever played spider-man 2? She could be like Fox's "black cat". Help you out sometimes, be all mysterious. Yeah, I think that'd be cool... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapidfire Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 I have very little real doubt that StarFox can survive the new generation of gaming. The notion of animals roving space and blowing things up in a shoot-'em-up arcade game alluding to Star Wars and Star Trek at various points is fine; science fiction is fairly timeless. The problem has been how Nintendo has neglected and manhandled the franchise, and it belies a sticking point that running undercurrent with the company. As far as "true" fans (as opposed to casual gamers) are concerned, Nintendo hasn't aged as well as it could have. The same people have been making the same games for one to two or more decades already, and innovation is becoming increasingly lacking as a result. As was mentioned in the OP, Zelda games follow the same format all the time, but so do many Nintendo games. Nintendo continues to be a master of jaw-dropping legerdemain in that respect; there is not so much functional difference between the original Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario Galaxy besides the obvious upgrades in technology to enhance the experience. Playing Twilight Princess is comparable to playing Ocarina of Time only with a motion-sensor device, such was the degree of repetition of puzzles between the two games. In short, Nintendo is lethargic because it does not have to strain itself to be competitive in the market at present. Now when Metroid was turned over to a new developer for the Prime series, that was a unique diamond among the coal of mediocre GCN sequels to Nintendo franchises, and it is entirely possible that the same could happen for StarFox. It has to be the proper fit, though; Rare and Namco seemed ill-suited for the task. Adventures and Assault both had considerable potential, but were critically flawed in their own ways. A development team that has some experience in flight sims/combat would be apropos for the series. There are many potential avenues the series could take, but it would be advisable that the course be directed more by the developer and less by Nintendo tap dancing on the dev team's head about arbitrary deadlines and (lack of) QA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndf Posted August 5, 2008 Author Share Posted August 5, 2008 You bring up some pretty good points. I suppose your right, the question isn't is there market for star fox, the question is will Nintendo step in and save the series. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fox Runner Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 The game can definitely survive today's market, thats an absolute. The question is whether or not the next game can blow our minds, like DZ said in the podcast, if the next game doesn't do well, it could likely doom the series, if it isn't doomed already, which I certainly hope its not. Basically all we can do now is pray. Thats what I'm doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landon_Fox Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 You are right Star Fox Runner the only thing we can do now is wait and pray for a game that blow up our minds! Because like DZ said Star Fox Series it's in danger. :oops: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Krystal Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 With the success of Mega Man 9, there's absolutely no reason why an "old style game" can't make it in today's world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrShowtime Posted August 5, 2008 Share Posted August 5, 2008 "Can Star Fox survive the new generation of gaming??" Star Fox will live on for generations as long as there are fans who continue to keep it alive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orbital Fox Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 So far the past three games have sucked. Although i can still go back and have some fun. Adventures was actually really fun I beat it like 6 times then got bored of it. That music was awesome, Krystal was hot, and who doesn't like smacking that dumbass dinosaur Tricky. Assault was fun the first time through but after that multiplayer was pretty fun and so was going back to beat my high scores. (In your face XG and Steve9!) And I bought Command and couldn't get past the first part. So I hate that one. Like Pig-Kay said No one likes that game either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Krystal Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 And I bought Command and couldn't get past the first part. So I hate that one. Like Pig-Kay said No one likes that game either. Come on man! I liked that game. It had almost everything fans requested, but in amounts so large it was confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Star Fox Runner Posted August 6, 2008 Share Posted August 6, 2008 Star Fox Command is my least favorite Star Fox game, but I don't hate it, I liked it. I just think it has a few problems. So don't say everyone hates it, it's just not at the top of everyones list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndf Posted August 6, 2008 Author Share Posted August 6, 2008 I liked the gameplay, I just didn't like the story. :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinter Sensei Posted August 8, 2008 Share Posted August 8, 2008 yeah comands storyline sucked and of course starfox will survive i mean if mario can come out with so many games and never gets old then cant starfox do it too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBoy100 Posted August 9, 2008 Share Posted August 9, 2008 yeah comands storyline sucked and of course starfox will survive i mean if mario can come out with so many games and never gets old then cant starfox do it too? true, man. I just want next StarFox game to be MUCH better. Command is a cool game, but it sucks too because of storylines. I mean, that thing is branching out, just like driving down on a freeway with SO many exits, ya know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndf Posted August 11, 2008 Author Share Posted August 11, 2008 yeah comands storyline sucked and of course starfox will survive i mean if mario can come out with so many games and never gets old then cant starfox do it too? Sure, Mario has a million games, but do they all follow a classic style? No, Mario does sports games, explorer games, side scrolling arcade style games, etc, etc. Star Fox has to follow the same format over and over, or else people get all "return the series to it's roots! we don't want anything new!!" Star Fox can't be handed over to a new developer, no one knows what to do with the series now, it's been a sci-fi shooter, an adventure game and a forced forward-arcade-shooter -- they pretty much threw consistency out the window after SF64. Nintendo needs to come back, revive the old star fox feel (maybe give it some new twists so it isn't just a repeat) and they need to resolve some serious plotpoints that have been hanging there for far too long-- it's driving fans crazy: Is James McCloud alive or dead? Whats up with Krystal, whats her purpose? And is SFC canon? If so, which parts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapidfire Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 Contrasting Mario and StarFox in terms of storyline depth is like comparing the puddle on your lawn to the Mediterranean Sea for nautical depth. Mario is simply: the Princess has been kidnapped, let's-a go! StarFox has always used a narrative set-up to explain and propel the story forward. Why exactly Mario defies the increasingly rising standard of more intense storyline in video games today is something of a mystery. Perhaps the sheer recognition factor is enough; most Mario games are not in any dire need of further explanation than what they provide because platformers rarely need it. A problem with StarFox in its GCN releases is its attempt to follow the emerging pattern of making a video game into an interactive cinematic experience. What that becomes is a series of aesthetic cutscenes trying to draw attention away from the fact that the game is bookended by these cutscenes, filling in the spaces between subpar or obnoxious level design, camera issues, glitches, et cetera. Adventures had the style and feel of Indiana Jones, down to the element of getting the girl at the end. However, the most pivotal part of any StarFox game, the Arwing combat, was shakily adhered to the game with paste and and duct tape along with a final boss that indicated a total lack of thought. Assault had the space sci-fi genre down to the last details. It could not escape a dodgy camera, quirky controls, and painfully repetitive gameplay. Games that concentrate more on spectacle than on substance are bound to hit hard stumbling blocks in the market, and despite the fact that both CGN games were Player's Choices, a quick survey of many Gamestops in the United States indicate that most players chose to return those games and get their money back (see also Super Smash Bros. Brawl). As such, the problem with development is the who. Would it be nice to see EAD make the next SF? The better question is: can EAD do a decent job with the next SF without just releasing StarFox 64 again with new-gen graphics? Sure, that project would net millions of dollars for Nintendo, and don't be surprised if that's what came of StarFox in this generation. Without effort, Nintendo would hold to its repulsive "casual gamers" mantra and turn a stunning profit. It is for this reason that I would now much prefer Q-Games Ltd. to develop another SF; for a game built on an engine meant for something different and designed on a spurious executive whim, Command turned out rather nicely. If the story was lacking, I'd sooner take solid gameplay in a trade-off. It is unfortunate that there should be a trade-off period, but perish the thought of suffering through a boring and repetitive game so it can look appealing! Yes, the old feel of 64 needs to be revived. The ideal developer is not interested in dumping StarFox 64 with new graphics on the consumers, but is instead committed to legitimate replay value and fun as quality elements of the product. Nintendo, having shovelled so much Wii Ware on the market in the past two years with few franchise releases, is looking less and less like that ideal developer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WolfMcCloud Posted August 11, 2008 Share Posted August 11, 2008 it would be nice if they did do a remake of sf64 or the original sf and see how they do and if fans love them then take that into consideration and continue the series like those two classics,sire i did like adventures but thats because i love zelda and command was good but horrible at the same time,i enjoyed it at times but at other times it got really frustrating >.< all im trying to say is if they cant come up with a good idea why not make a remake of either sf or sf64 just till they get a good idea for the next one, like maybe take that old canceled data from starfox 2 and maybe acually do that game with the wii or maybe ds either one. i still think the series has its possibilities of surviving if nintendo would just get their heads straightend and realize the mistakes they did with the recent sf's but if they dont then that gives a bad sign to sf and maybe in the near future zelda aswell killing off some of nintendo's great games and in time going to end the company's lifespan and i know well all dont want that to happen ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndf Posted August 12, 2008 Author Share Posted August 12, 2008 Well spoken, Rapidfire. WolfMcCloud, I don't think they can do another remake. SF64 was a remake of Star Fox from the SNES, if they do that again for SF: Wii-- we would end up with 3/6 of the series being the same thing. A remake of a game from the SNES days. The challenge is to take the same style and do something new with it. For example, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Galaxy have kinda the same feel to it, but Nintendo is able to make the gameplay feel completly new and fresh! Thats what they need... Osnap, I just compared Mario with Star Fox. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Splinter Sensei Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 yup i think the next starfox game need to bae all awring levals its rediculas its like nintendois giving me a prostate exam and expecting me to like it!     what the heck?!! no i need a good starfox game that i will play for a long time like starfox 64 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WolfBoy100 Posted August 12, 2008 Share Posted August 12, 2008 Well, I think Nintendo need to come up something better for StarFox if it's coming out for Wii. It should contains better storyline, graphic, mission on ground (pilot, landmaster or Arwing if some enemies are in air) and Arwing mission if it takes place in space. And MAYBE...the story could continues from Assault since Command is too messy with storylines branching out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Winters Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 We don't have many options, any new directions for this series is risky (see Adventures) and attempts to return to its roots (Assault, Command) are flawed. What would be a good idea would be for a developer of an actual flight sim series (ie. Descent, Freespace, Ace Combat ect.) to make the game, a Star Fox with a flight sim touch (ex. commanding wingmates, large scale battles ect.) would be great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aleks55 Posted August 15, 2008 Share Posted August 15, 2008 all they really have to do is get a better sotryline, all the games were pretty good, i liked assault and command, adventures was good too, but to much like zelda games, command actualy got pretty ok reviews, keep arwing onyl, or at least almost arwing only, and get a better story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorAllosaurus Posted August 26, 2008 Share Posted August 26, 2008 I've been thinking what if Nintendo and Treasure teamed up to make the next Star Fox game. Just for a minute imagine what would happen if Star Fox 64 and Sin and Punishment had a kid. See where I'm going with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zippo Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 if i may all the star fox games have been flawed (with the obvious exception of lylat wars) the game dosn't need to return to its roots it needs to use what was good and remove the cancer and perhaps smarter AI it really pissed me off when i was stuck on the ground no land master and Krystal asked for help couldn't Falco or someone save her also i resent what pig-kay said about Krystal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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