War in Afghanistan

["User"]

By now I'm sure everyone has heard of the conflicts that have been in Afghanistan since 2001 to first drive out the Taliban government and, currently, to rid the country of the insurgency that has been there ever since.  For a refresher read the Wikipedia article on the subject here.

My question to all of you is if you think this war is actually producing any noticeable results since the Taliban's outage and if it's actually while it for NATA forces to still be in that country, given what else has happened since.  I'm going to present my view on this issue and you guys give me your feedback and if anyone has a different, even opposable viewpoint from mine I'd like to hear it.

I'm personally against any and all further war in Afghanistan. I remember when that conflict first started in 2001 shortly after 9/11, and the Iraq War a year or two after that and support for the Iraq War was at an all time high during the Bush Administration.  Now, several years and one worldwide recession later public disposition in NATO countries is at an all time low. With the economy in tatters, specifically in the U.S. many citizens don't want to be spending billions of dollars per MONTH fighting a war that right now, outside the Taliban's outage in 2003, has had extremely little progress.  The vast majority of people I know question why we are still in that country....almost 10 years later, when we could have been spending the money instead on the economy's of our respective countries instead of meddling in the affairs of others.  A few people I know are likening this war to the 10 year Soviet Invasion of Afghanistan in through the 80's.  The United States spends the highest % of their budget ($651 billion in 2009) on the Department of Defense out of anything else (ex. health care, education etc) and during a time of economy grief I'd think it would be more prudent to invest in....you know...your own economy to CREATE jobs that can SUPPORT a large military in the first place?  Unfortunately, the defense budgets of many countries in the world have not been cut back (like other departments) during this recession and I see this as a problem to incurring more sovereign debt.

Now I am not saying that war in itself is not justified.  I certainly see the Allies in World War 2 for example, as a necessity to defeating Nazi Germany and throwing their entire economies behind a war effort that I am sure no one will dispute was justified to protect our freedom.  Some wars however, like in Afghanistan have had little progress since 2003 and, to me personally it's a waste of money - especially with the world wide economy the way it is. 

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I agree.  We're only there now just to get a monopoly over the damn Opium Trade.  And there's a large valuable mineral deposit under Afghanistan, so I heard.

[Asper Sarnoff]

I believe there is nothing more to be gained from the continuation of that war, if there was anything to gain in the first place. Anyone willing to bet against that there won't be peace in Afghanistan within the next century? Too many people there who don't do compromices or negotiations, at all.

[Kursed]

I honestly see little point to it now I understood why we were there in the first place ,but now it just seems like a never ending mop up.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I believe there is nothing more to be gained from the continuation of that war, if there was anything to gain in the first place. Anyone willing to bet against that there won't be peace in Afghanistan within the next century? Too many people there who don't do compromices or negotiations, at all.

I honestly see little point to it now I understood why we were there in the first place ,but now it just seems like a never ending mop up.

That's true.

[DZComposer]

Our original mission there was to eliminate Al-Quieda. They are no longer there. Besides, it is a loose network of affiliated groups. It is not something that can be stamped out with normal military operations.

The best way is to marginalize the crazies that run these groups. Perhaps if our foreign policy were a little more sensitive to the views of the Muslim world, they wouldn't hate us so damn much.

Our mission there now is to prop-up Karzai's government. This is the exact same shit the Soviets tried to do there, and look how that turned out.

Why prop-up Karzai? Simple: He can funnel wealth from Afghanistan's huge virgin mineral wealth through his cronies in corporate America. Yes, his brother is up to his eyeballs in Opium, but that is only part of it. There is a lot more mineral wealth there than poppy wealth. Add the fact that the people hate Karzai due to his blatant corruption, and this is an unwinable situation.

Sadly, this is Vietnam all over again.

[Kursed]

Our original mission there was to eliminate Al-Quieda. They are no longer there. Besides, it is a loose network of affiliated groups. It is not something that can be stamped out with normal military operations.

The best way is to marginalize the crazies that run these groups. Perhaps if our foreign policy were a little more sensitive to the views of the Muslim world, they wouldn't hate us so damn much.

Our mission there now is to prop-up Karzai's government. This is the exact same shit the Soviets tried to do there, and look how that turned out.

Why prop-up Karzai? Simple: He can funnel wealth from Afghanistan's huge virgin mineral wealth through his cronies in corporate America. Yes, his brother is up to his eyeballs in Opium, but that is only part of it. There is a lot more mineral wealth there than poppy wealth. Add the fact that the people hate Karzai due to his blatant corruption, and this is an unwinable situation.

Sadly, this is Vietnam all over again.

and Korea before.

Well there's a old saying those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

["User"]

Our original mission there was to eliminate Al-Quieda. They are no longer there. Besides, it is a loose network of affiliated groups. It is not something that can be stamped out with normal military operations.

Yeah, Al Qaeda has become more and more decentralized since 9/11

Why prop-up Karzai? Simple: He can funnel wealth from Afghanistan's huge virgin mineral wealth through his cronies in corporate America. Yes, his brother is up to his eyeballs in Opium, but that is only part of it. There is a lot more mineral wealth there than poppy wealth. Add the fact that the people hate Karzai due to his blatant corruption, and this is an unwinable situation.

My personal portrayal of Karzai is somewhat of a crazy man at times.  Remember those blatant anti-Western comments he made all of a sudden that caused the Western World to go "WTF?" and how he apologized for it days later?  Yeah.....

[DZComposer]

Remember those blatant anti-Western comments he made all of a sudden that caused the Western World to go "WTF?" and how he apologized for it days later?  Yeah.....

That's just him being a politician. He has to answer his critics from time to time to attempt to keep the insurgency out of Kabul.

[Guest DRL]

The war has been, is, and will still be a

complete waste of resources.

The wars has been raging since the last

Soviet-aligned leader was overthrown, to

destroy those which, ironically, were supplied

in first place with weapons and equipment to

destroy the Soviet ally.

I say to cut-off all aid. As a Democracy, you

never know who will go next (unless you take

perverse pleasure in rigging elections, of course)

but chances are it will not be another puppet.

Perhaps yes, perhaps not.

But I say to abandon that war; it is, in the long-term,

a complete waste. Honestly, it only damages US reputation,

as third-world countries continue to this as "An act of

Imperialism", and on the economic side, it can only hurt

the economy. There is simply nothing to gain, and many

things to lose.

Additionally, superpower based troops have proven ineffective

in mountains and jungles (Remember Vietnam), and this is

no different. The Taliban hids in such places, not in cities.

Lastly, if I were the US President, I will worry much more about

military acts that could really 'affect' my nation. I mean, what

has Afghanistan, Central Asia, to endanger the US? The country

itself is land-locked, and economically poor.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

We've just drug the war itself out too long.  It's really not the president's fault, but the people who tell him to do stuff (Forgot the political party  ).

Shoot, whenever I go to do my military service, I'm more than likely will be deployed over there, so I guess I'll see it first hand, huh. 

Plus, when they say that we're 'winning the war', what part are we winning at?  I mean, the more we drag the war on, the more harder and angrier the Al Qaeda forces will fight, and will wear us down.  Eventually.

It's just a matter of time until one side calls it quits.

[Guest DRL]

We've just drug the war itself out too long.  It's really not the president's fault, but the people who tell him to do stuff (Forgot the political party  ).

Shoot, whenever I go to do my military service, I'm more than likely will be deployed over there, so I guess I'll see it first hand, huh. 

Plus, when they say that we're 'winning the war', what part are we winning at?  I mean, the more we drag the war on, the more harder and angrier the Al Qaeda forces will fight, and will wear us down.  Eventually.

It's just a matter of time until one side calls it quits.

Republican/Democratic Party.

(Two biggest parties in the US.)

No problem with that, but hey, as

much as in pressure as you will be,

ultimately YOU (the 'leader') decides

what to do, regardless of advice.

It is not an autocratic state, and we

are not anymore in the 80'. I would

not worry for a coup.

Oh, and hope you come back safe

and sound if you are sent there.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

(OOC:  Yeah, no joke.  I don't want to come back with a bullet stuck up my crotch and bleeding out my ears. lol)

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Our original mission there was to eliminate Al-Quieda. They are no longer there. Besides, it is a loose network of affiliated groups. It is not something that can be stamped out with normal military operations.

The best way is to marginalize the crazies that run these groups. Perhaps if our foreign policy were a little more sensitive to the views of the Muslim world, they wouldn't hate us so damn much.

Our mission there now is to prop-up Karzai's government. This is the exact same shit the Soviets tried to do there, and look how that turned out.

Why prop-up Karzai? Simple: He can funnel wealth from Afghanistan's huge virgin mineral wealth through his cronies in corporate America. Yes, his brother is up to his eyeballs in Opium, but that is only part of it. There is a lot more mineral wealth there than poppy wealth. Add the fact that the people hate Karzai due to his blatant corruption, and this is an unwinable situation.

Sadly, this is Vietnam all over again.

and Korea before.

Well there's a old saying those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Agreed on both posts

[Guest DRL]

and Korea before.

Well there's a old saying those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

But the US was WINNING the

Korean war. It was not until China,

and the USSR, intervened in favor

of the People's Republic that NKorea

was - for lack of a better term - 'saved'.

Vietnam is all the opposite. North Vietnamese

troops had the upper hand in strategy against

BOTH South Vietnam & US forces, even if these

two combined were superior in technology and

assets.

Hence, why today we have a North & South Korean border

and only a ('Chinesse Socialist') Vietnam republic.