Alright, you furries. This is it. Prove that Krystal isn't a cardboard character

[Vulvokunvrii]

^ he makes a pretty good point...made me think about that for a second, and it makes sense!

[TheRedFox8]

Looking past the obvious "attractiveness" in Krystal, I kind of like her personality and the way she acts.

IMHO, why people like Krystal so much is because she's so darn cute (well, sometimes), not attractive. This is why I like Tails from Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't find him attractive, but he sure is cute :3

[Matrilwood]

@ Milky

Woah, calm the **** down. O_O

[Milkyway64]

Looking past the obvious "attractiveness" in Krystal, I kind of like her personality and the way she acts.

IMHO, why people like Krystal so much is because she's so darn cute (well, sometimes), not attractive. This is why I like Tails from Sonic the Hedgehog. I don't find him attractive, but he sure is cute :3

Krystal barely has a personality past goodie two-shoes (sue) and the way she "acts" is sitting totally frozen in a precious mineral and being a talking head in the next game. She has like 3 cutscenes where she does the following in order:

yells at an overgrown lizard and gets thrown overboard for it

sexy walks toward Fox with stripper music accompanying

sit on Tricky's back and giggles at Fox acting like a kid at the honeymoon statement

And the Tails comment, he IS cute. He's like a teddy bear and about every kid I knew who had a genesis wanted to play as him. Actually, that was probably for the infinite lives so they can yell at the other player for their repeated deaths.

POINT IS, Tails pulled it off without singlehandedly giving his games a T rating.

[TheRedFox8]

Glad to see that we both agree on the same thing

Oh, and you can't forget ROB's "Temperature levels indicate Fox's temperature rising. Are you okay, Fox?" comment.

And for the record, Krystal didn't make me a furry. It was a combination of Tails and finding out how cool anthros are more and more. Tails is the catalyst.

[Fluxy]

This is my point of view on it. What have we seen about Krystal?

She follows the stereotypical Female hero in fantasy character plots: [And, yes. Star Fox is Sci-Fi, but Sci-Fi is a sub-genre off Fantasy]

[star Fox Adventures] She gets stuck for letting her guard down, and being too weak to defend herself without her friend (The dragon thingy). She gets attracted to the shy as crap hero. She joins the team to follow her lust for said hero.

[star Fox Assault] She is close to the hero in the sequel, yet not have anything made yet. She is in a constant haze of needing to get help by the hero. She gets hit on by anti-hero's that annoy/are a pain in the hero's @rse (Panther, duh). Makes hints at liking the hero, yet, not being the one to start up anything. Still stays in practically the same power level, same relationship spot, and same status on the team.

[star Fox Command (Yes, I am adding it)] She gets heartbroken before any steady relationship is even made. Turns against the hero (In a few endings). Returns to the begging hero (In an ending). She returns to the hero, just yet to leave him again (In an ending). She has a kid with the hero (In an ending).

Also, other than caring for unwell taken planets [Yet another stereotype], she doesn't have too much of a personality as seen from the games.

So my deduction is thus: She is weak, not to great, and a stereotypical female. Not really anything new, or special. Not to mention she got kicked out from being the main character out of her own game. *Shrug*

But to make things clear, I like Krystal. Why is this? I don't exactly know. Maybe because she is an Anthro? *Shrug* More stuff I am not sure about. And that is my stance on this.

[Matrilwood]

@ Milky

That was just my introduction, if you didn't realize that was my first post, hence the only thing I was giving was my PoV hence it should not have come with any evidence at all.

Tl;dr, fanfics do not make a character good. The game designers do.

That is true to a certain point. As an example, "Horo" from "Wolf and Spice" has fan-fic that represents her as an apple obsessed nudist. That fleshes out her character but does not improve her in any way.

Most popular heroins have a level of sex appeal; Krystal, Horo, Miss.Piggy (I'm serious). And this is not just limited to the girls; Dr.Who, James Bond, Terminator Dude. Of course not all follow this formula; Kermit the Frog, Mario (Who has as much sex appeal as a handy-man with a weight problem), Princess peach, Zelda. This sex appeal makes them noticed, hence you hear about them beyond the confines of their origin. How often do you hear about a character before you know where they're from? And out of those, which ones don't have sex appeal? I can assure you very little. The only one I can think of is Darth-Vader. But through Fan-Fiction even he has a level of Sex-Appeal (Honored the mascot of Gay-Black Men groups until they found out he was an albino (Again I'm serious))

[Krystal] has like 3 cutscenes.

Tails pulled it off without singlehandedly giving his games a T rating.

How many more games has Tails been in compared to Krystal?

[TheRedFox8]

I also believe what's hurting Krystal's reputation are those idiots who are actually attracted to her, or those people who feed those people erotica, suggestive content, and so on.

I bet if that never happened, Krystal would be just another character (an unusual one, yes, but not in the same situation she's in today).

[Xortberg]

@ Milky

That was just my introduction, if you didn't realize that was my first post, hence the only thing I was giving was my PoV hence it should not have come with any evidence at all.

That is true to a certain point. As an example, "Horo" from "Wolf and Spice" has fan-fic that represents her as an apple obsessed nudist. That fleshes out her character but does not improve her in any way.

Most popular heroins have a level of sex appeal; Krystal, Horo, Miss.Piggy (I'm serious). And this is not just limited to the girls; Dr.Who, James Bond, Terminator Dude. Of course not all follow this formula; Kermit the Frog, Mario (Who has as much sex appeal as a handy-man with a weight problem), Princess peach, Zelda. This sex appeal makes them noticed, hence you hear about them beyond the confines of their origin. How often do you hear about a character before you know where they're from? And out of those, which ones don't have sex appeal? I can assure you very little. The only one I can think of is Darth-Vader. But through Fan-Fiction even he has a level of Sex-Appeal (Honored the mascot of Gay-Black Men groups until they found out he was an albino (Again I'm serious))

How many more games has Tails been in compared to Krystal?

You just don't seem to get it. Fanfiction. Does. Not. Make. A character. Good. The work they appear in makes them good. If the topic at hand were how to make a good character out of Krystal, fanfics might warrant a mention. It's not. It's about what actually makes her a good character in the games. Fanfiction does not do that. It instead shows what the fans want her to be.

As for your 'apple obsessed nudist' example, it's totally wrong as well. Fleshing out a character is the job of whoever invents the character. Fanfics are all well and good, but they mean jack shit in judging a character's actual worth. That should be judged with how they are in... you know... the original work. That's why the original work exists in the first place.

[Milkyway64]

I also believe what's hurting Krystal's reputation are those idiots who are actually attracted to her, or those people who feed those people erotica, suggestive content, and so on.

I bet if that never happened, Krystal would be just another character (an unusual one, yes, but not in the same situation she's in today).

Don't tell that to Matrilwood, who seems to be under the belief that this very thing makes her "fleshed out" and good.

I'd rebut Matrilwood himself, but Xort covered for me.

[Matrilwood]

I also believe what's hurting Krystal's reputation are those idiots who are actually attracted to her.

I bet if that never happened, Krystal would... not in the same situation she's in today.

So what you're saying is that being popular is harmful? I know that probably wasn't you're point but that's how it came out

It's the erotica/devotion conflict that makes her such an interesting character. Some people reckon she's hot, others reckon she shouldn't be treated like a sex symbol, they fight. It's like a 3 stooges set up.

Although so far I haven't seen anything that explains why there is an entire furry-convention and sub-culture devoted to her.

@ Xort

I've forgotten what I was about to say now... Uhhh... in respect to her as an in game character, I agree with Milkyway. That Krystal is an extremely shallow half-thought out character. Her personality is even different in each game. In the first game she's a rambo-type, in Assault she's over-dependent on Fox (Although this makes sense if you apply the logic in the latest "Seven Samaria" movie), and in Command she doesn't have much of a personality at all. I've only played Adventure so I got the other 2 ideas from someone else. So forgive me if I'm wrong about that part.

@ Milky

I don't think you realize what a debate is somehow.

[Milkyway64]

So what you're saying is that being popular is harmful? I know that probably wasn't you're point but that's how it came out

It's the erotica/devotion conflict that makes her such an interesting character. Some people reckon she's hot, others reckon she shouldn't be treated like a sex symbol, they fight. It's like a 3 stooges set up.

Although so far I haven't seen anything that explains why there is an entire furry-convention and sub-culture devoted to her.

What he's saying is it's not her or her character that's popular, it's her "borrowed" image in the fanworks you're trying to use as evidence for the canon character.

As for that second line, it's not HER that is interesting in that place, it's her fanbase. There's a difference.

@ Xort

in Command she doesn't have much of a personality at all. I've only played Adventure so I got the other 2 ideas from someone else. So forgive me if I'm wrong about that part.

She arguably has the MOST personality in Command. It just swings all over the place depending on the path you take.

@ Milky

I don't think you realize what a debate is somehow.

Do explain. I've done nothing wrong and it seems that you're just defaulting to this in lack of a legitimate response.

[Matrilwood]

@ Milky

As far as I can tell, you're not actually debating, your just saying that everyone is wrong or right without any rhyme or reason.

[Dragon Fox 05]

@ Milky

As far as I can tell, you're not actually debating, your just saying that everyone is wrong or right without any rhyme or reason.

You should just know that Milky has been debating about this for a lont time. So he's taking it a step further.

@Milky, what I meant to say is that her gender is what is attributing to her popularity. As to how it attributes to her character I have no idea, because all of your points are solid. I have to agree, fanfics are noncanon, so they have nothing to do with what the actual character is like. Which also means that she, in the developer's eyes, was not supposed to seen as either a subject to be hated or sex appeal. It's the fans who did that.

I have no idea where I stand on the subject now, I probably shouldn't say much here, seeing how I AM a krystal fan, but she isn't the best character to me. However, if you forget everything that the fans have made her out to be, it's hard not to like her, and a lot like Princess Fiona from Shrek if you've seen that movie.

[Matrilwood]

And so far as I can tell NOW, what I thought was the topic was something else. (And now that I know what the real topic is, I think it's boring so I'll exit this thread.)

[Thu'um]

I also believe what's hurting Krystal's reputation are those idiots who are actually attracted to her, or those people who feed those people erotica, suggestive content, and so on.

I bet if that never happened, Krystal would be just another character (an unusual one, yes, but not in the same situation she's in today).

I agree.

I posted my reason on multiple topics.

[Vulvokunvrii]

mabye this thing should be locked down; it seems you are just venting your frustration here, rather than actually making a "debate topic"

[Milkyway64]

You should just know that Milky has been debating about this for a lont time. So he's taking it a step further.

@Milky, what I meant to say is that her gender is what is attributing to her popularity. As to how it attributes to her character I have no idea, because all of your points are solid. I have to agree, fanfics are noncanon, so they have nothing to do with what the actual character is like. Which also means that she, in the developer's eyes, was not supposed to seen as either a subject to be hated or sex appeal. It's the fans who did that.

I have no idea where I stand on the subject now, I probably shouldn't say much here, seeing how I AM a krystal fan, but she isn't the best character to me. However, if you forget everything that the fans have made her out to be, it's hard not to like her, and a lot like Princess Fiona from Shrek if you've seen that movie.

Indeed. Every point I made I've hammered in so much that they are boring to repeat. Not to mention that the post above this one suggests he had the wrong idea all along.

And of course I don't deny that she can't be likable. She CAN be, but she has a loooot of points against her such as being a mary sue. This can be and is a turnoff for many people.

I agree.

I posted my reason on multiple topics.

Do it again here. A copy/paste would do. There still is no evidence to the contrary.

mabye this thing should be locked down; it seems you are just venting your frustration here, rather than actually making a "debate topic"

Not really. It IS a debate, it just seems bad because right now it's horribly, horribly one sided. The pro Krystal side has yet to put up anything other than paperthin excuse defenses.

[Thu'um]

Do it again here. A copy/paste would do. There still is no evidence to the contrary.

I would, and i'd like to but its in the mature board now...I cant get in there for another 4 years 

[Vulvokunvrii]

Not really. It IS a debate, it just seems bad because right now it's horribly, horribly one sided. The pro Krystal side has yet to put up anything other than paperthin excuse defenses.

well, im neutral, and i really dont give a darn if you are a Blue cerinian fox frozen in a crystal on a far away planet; as long as you can hold a gun, and kill your share of enemies, you are fine by me ^_^

[Milkyway64]

I would, and i'd like to but its in the mature board now...I cant get in there for another 4 years 

Translation: I have no good reason and am going to dodge around the point needlessly.

[Thu'um]

Translation: I have no good reason and am going to dodge around the point needlessly.

Translation: fine then. so after me telling you and robert at least 10 times you can't remember!  Sir can i recomend a docter in my neigbor hood. he can help you...

[Milkyway64]

I remember them, they were just unrelated reasons as well. Is it that hard to simply put it in a topic it's relevant in? Or are you really that afraid and have more faith in winning with bluffs and downtalking than you do any actual point?

[Thu'um]

I remember them, they were just unrelated reasons as well. Is it that hard to simply put it in a topic it's relevant in? Or are you really that afraid and have more faith in winning with bluffs and downtalking than you do any actual point?

I'll post it later, M'k thats a promise. I'm just in to good a mood right now, and have no time to deal with you and your hate of people who injoy krystal's character and personatly.

[Fluxy]

I'll post it later, M'k thats a promise. I'm just in to good a mood right now, and have no time to deal with you and your hate of people who injoy krystal's character and personatly.

I do not belive that 'hate' is a very strongly used word, and not the right one to use in this case.

He dislikes [Again, if this is like me kinda] how people say many things/obsess about her that she has yet proven to be. Such as self reliant, powerful, and has a great personality.