Brotherhood of Steel?

[Vulvokunvrii]

Why do people love the Brotherhood of Steel so much? All they are are just descendants of the United States Army that had DESERTED the USA in the last few moments of the Nuclear war to hide in Mariposa Military base, only to emerge later to form a snooty stuck-up bunch of armored boy-scouts that horde weapons for themselves and would never share it with anyone, known as the Brotherhood of Steel. They helped NO ONE, and didn't give a rat's *** about anyone but themselves. Hell, they treated the Protagonist in BOTH Fallout 1 and 2 like dirt.

After the Enclave's Poseidon Oil Rig Base was destroyed in a fireball in Fallout 2, the Brotherhood pursued the Enclave the best they could all the way to the East Coast, and set up shop in the remnants of the Pentagon. Noe these BoS members were somehow..."different" from their asshole West Coast kinsmen. These guys and gals decided to "help" the citizens of the wasteland a bit, while still being stuck-up assholes. All they cared about was killing Super Mutants, and finding technology as well as history about the Pre-War era.

 

SPOILER ALERT

Eventually the Lone wander (Fallout 3's main protagonist) happens upon them and they treat him/her like dirt as usual. But eventually your Father James gets sacrifices himself so you can escape the forces of the Enclave, and once you reach the Pentagon, they treat you like you're ****ing Jesus. I mean really guys? First you treat the MC like dirt, and then you suddenly treat him like their Gordon Freeman? Its like everyone is bipolar or something when the apocalypse strikes or something.

 

But overall, I don't see the appeal of the Brotherhood of Steel...am I missing something? I'm certain a good amount of you have played Fallout 3 before, and maybe you're all BoS lovers. Maybe you can tell me whats up from your perspective?

[ballisticwaffles]

Alright, lemme try.

 

 All they are are just descendants of the United States Army that had DESERTED the USA in the last few moments of the Nuclear war to hide in Mariposa Military base, only to emerge later to form a snooty stuck-up bunch of armored boy-scouts that horde weapons for themselves and would never share it with anyone, known as the Brotherhood of Steel.

 

 

Why do people like the Enclave? All they are is remnants of the corrupt, tyrannical, genocidal, uncaring, inefficient, but legitimate government that has no right to rule after abandoning the country to a disaster they caused. The answer is that in the Fallout universe the BOS are archivists more than they are a form of government or anything else. Their purpose was to save the technology of the old world and guard it with their lives. Which is more than the Enclave ever did. Thematically they serve as a foil to the Enclave, remnants of old America that don't want to kill you, while retaining Fallouts trademark style.

After the Enclave's Poseidon Oil Rig Base was destroyed in a fireball in Fallout 2, the Brotherhood pursued the Enclave the best they could all the way to the East Coast, and set up shop in the remnants of the Pentagon. Noe these BoS members were somehow..."different" from their asshole West Coast kinsmen. These guys and gals decided to "help" the citizens of the wasteland a bit, while still being stuck-up assholes. All they cared about was killing Super Mutants, and finding technology as well as history about the Pre-War era. 

 

It is noted multiple times in universe that the East Coast BOS were disowned by their western counter parts for wanting to do anything other than preserve technology. Stuck-up is a strange term to use when the proper term would be "over stretched" in the deadliest parts of the old Capital. They were being pressed thin while trying to help a lot of people at once and that shows when you encounter literally three man patrols facing Super Mutants armed with catastrophic weaponry. And they cared more for the three things you listed because thats what the plot of the entire game hinges upon. The BOS wanting to help people by distributing Aqua Pura. You forget that the BOS from Fallout 1 and 2 exist as the Outcasts, who are by far more stuck up then you claim the East coast Brotherhood to be.

 

 

I mean really guys? First you treat the MC like dirt, and then you suddenly treat him like their Gordon Freeman? Its like everyone is bipolar or something when the apocalypse strikes or something.

This is probably a semantic sort of thing, but how would the brotherhood know that you are the main character? What gets you access to the Pentagon is the angry screams of the scientist you escorted, who Elder Lyons knew well. They wouldn't know you, nor that you were Liam Neeson's son. After your identity has been established as his son, a man that Lyons knew, yes the treat you with respect only because before you were a random wastelander demanding entrance to the pentagon with wild tales for all they know you made up in your head then and there.

[Vulvokunvrii]

Alright, lemme try.

 

 

 

1.

Well I like the Enclave for a few reasons, and they'd probably sound misguided, stupid or biased. Also the main reason why the Enclave wanted to kill you, is because of what they had seen, and discovered in the first two games that set in their minds that everyone that had lived in the remnants of the USA were beyond saving. Added to the fact they had been attacked and shot at most of the time while exploring, so they were "technically" scared of everyone else.

2. Well if they are disowned, then they aren't even BoS anymore. They might as well just be some random Joe-schmoes with armor now.

 

3. Eh...I just hate how they treat everyone they came across like assholes. Even IF they didn't know you were the MC, at least let us explore the non restricted areas or something. I'd have at least let you walk around some of the non-sensitive areas, but then again my mentality is different.

[ballisticwaffles]

1.The Enclave were anything but scared.  What about the random killings of civilians the Enclave does in that attempt to label themselves as pure humans? What about the obvious long term genocidal plan that the President wanted to enact by poisoning the water supply to kill of all non genetically pure humans? Its one thing to make them sound like the victims, but the Enclave chose to reveal themselves and they chose to kidnap and mercilessly kill in the name of a fallen country that they themselves brought down. Dont forget it was the Enclave that ordered the construction of the Vaults, all of which were nothing more than population experiments.

 

2.They are BOS. They aren't just joe schmoes with armor because they have that armor. It is one thing to discount them because of their lack of title, but they are really the most powerful unified force in the capital wasteland and probably have been the number one force keeping the super mutants at bay.

 

3.And this again comes down to semantics. The inside of the Pentagon, immediately entering it, you see people training and LIVE ROUND test fires. There are no non-sensitive areas because not only is the Pentagon the sole headquarters of the organization, but it is also their training ground, their barracks, and their only home. Why don't they let you in to snoop around? Why would they?

[Vulvokunvrii]

1.The Enclave were anything but scared.  What about the random killings of civilians the Enclave does in that attempt to label themselves as pure humans? What about the obvious long term genocidal plan that the President wanted to enact by poisoning the water supply to kill of all non genetically pure humans? Its one thing to make them sound like the victims, but the Enclave chose to reveal themselves and they chose to kidnap and mercilessly kill in the name of a fallen country that they themselves brought down. Dont forget it was the Enclave that ordered the construction of the Vaults, all of which were nothing more than population experiments.

 

2.They are BOS. They aren't just joe schmoes with armor because they have that armor. It is one thing to discount them because of their lack of title, but they are really the most powerful unified force in the capital wasteland and probably have been the number one force keeping the super mutants at bay.

 

3.And this again comes down to semantics. The inside of the Pentagon, immediately entering it, you see people training and LIVE ROUND test fires. There are no non-sensitive areas because not only is the Pentagon the sole headquarters of the organization, but it is also their training ground, their barracks, and their only home. Why don't they let you in to snoop around? Why would they?

 

 

1.

Hmm...true enough I suppose, and yeah I remember that too. Curse my love for the forces of evil >_>

2.

I'm not sure how united they really were, they lacked efficient radio gear (which I don't blame them since most of it is slag or useless now), but at least try to fix it..? They have mechanics and scribes that know how machines work, couldn't they just fix their stuff?

But yes, they were the only dedicated force to keep the muties away, I'll give them that much.

3.

Ah good point, hmm..well I suppose I'm defeated on that one ^^;

[psy_commando]

I haven't played Fallout 2 in a long time, awesome game though, but didn't the BoS presence in F2 simply little hubs, with one BoS agent handing out missions for you if you decided to work with them ? They looked far more sympathetic to me in F2 than in F1.

 

However, they're doomed to eventually not breeding fast enough if they keep to keep their group alive. Unless what was in Fallout Tactics about recruiting tribals was not completely unheard of.. (Well actually now that I think of it, you're actually a tribal in F2 as well... But they don't really, recruit you..)

 

I guess people love the BoS because they got the best gear in the game. But I like various other groups in the series, like the gun runners (in fallout new vegas they kinda got really lame though), the followers of the apocalypse somewhat, the Vault 13 Deathclaws (not sure if really a spoiler to be honest, its not like really pivotal to the plot tbh),

[Vy'drach]

The Brotherhood of Steel is rather like the Spehss Mehreens in Warhammer 40k. They have the old technology, they have a sect trying to maintain and understand it, but they have only a basic understanding in maintaining it and if it breaks they're pretty much SOL because they don't understand it enough to fully repair it usually. Not to mention a lack of usable spare parts. Also why would they let anyone even near their bases? They don't know what's with the folks. They could try anything in there from stealing equipment to outright psycho annihilating the base. The fact they even let you get that close is surprising. Also, they have a very finite amount of resources and they can't go wasting it willy-nilly on every wastelander that comes over with a problem. Their goal is the preservation of humanity's progress as a whole, and individual people aren't worth much concern in the grand scheme. And people like them because while they may not go out of their way to help people, they tend to be openly hostile to the things that go out of their way to harm people, such as raiders, mutants, the Enclave, and all that stuff so people can stick near them with more safety.

 

And the idea that the Enclave were aggressive due to a strange form of jaded impressions from other people is entirely misguided. Did you not watch the Fallout 2 intro? Where they mercilessly mowed down men, women, and children emerging from the Vault? Also did you forget about Frank Horrigan, a horrible man who's missions included getting slaves for the Enclave, and later when Enclave scientists unearthed F.E.V. and mutations began to emerge from people exposed to it they took him in, mutated him even further, made him a walking psycho-death tank mutant with custom armour and mental conditioning, and let him run amok on folks.

[Vulvokunvrii]

The Brotherhood of Steel is rather like the Spehss Mehreens in Warhammer 40k. They have the old technology, they have a sect trying to maintain and understand it, but they have only a basic understanding in maintaining it and if it breaks they're pretty much SOL because they don't understand it enough to fully repair it usually. Not to mention a lack of usable spare parts. Also why would they let anyone even near their bases? They don't know what's with the folks. They could try anything in there from stealing equipment to outright psycho annihilating the base. The fact they even let you get that close is surprising. Also, they have a very finite amount of resources and they can't go wasting it willy-nilly on every wastelander that comes over with a problem. Their goal is the preservation of humanity's progress as a whole, and individual people aren't worth much concern in the grand scheme. And people like them because while they may not go out of their way to help people, they tend to be openly hostile to the things that go out of their way to harm people, such as raiders, mutants, the Enclave, and all that stuff so people can stick near them with more safety.

 

And the idea that the Enclave were aggressive due to a strange form of jaded impressions from other people is entirely misguided. Did you not watch the Fallout 2 intro? Where they mercilessly mowed down men, women, and children emerging from the Vault? Also did you forget about Frank Horrigan, a horrible man who's missions included getting slaves for the Enclave, and later when Enclave scientists unearthed F.E.V. and mutations began to emerge from people exposed to it they took him in, mutated him even further, made him a walking psycho-death tank mutant with custom armour and mental conditioning, and let him run amok on folks.

Hmm, true on many counts, and yes I saw the videos of Fo2.

They also did that because the Vaults were government experiments-not everyone came out of them sane in the membrane. Some had gone insane, some were ghoulified and might have gone feral and attacked on sight, some could have been pricks like the 101 overseer and refused ot have anything to do with the Enclave and decide to attack them, there could be a whole bunch of reasons other than the fact they looked down upon those who lived in the remnants of the United States as mutants. But I think I see your point.

[ballisticwaffles]

Hmm, true on many counts, and yes I saw the videos of Fo2.

They also did that because the Vaults were government experiments-not everyone came out of them sane in the membrane. Some had gone insane, some were ghoulified and might have gone feral and attacked on sight, some could have been pricks like the 101 overseer and refused ot have anything to do with the Enclave and decide to attack them, there could be a whole bunch of reasons other than the fact they looked down upon those who lived in the remnants of the United States as mutants. But I think I see your point.

There could be a whole bunch of reasons. But there isn't. Their entire motivation is that they are. You can't excuse them for their direct and main character traits that are heavily apparent by claiming they "Could" have had another reason than being the lol-evil entity that the Enclave was. And you cant excuse their actions by saying that they refused to deal with the Enclave fairly, when the enclave was already responsible for kidnapping about two to three entire towns at this point. This has nothing to do with the attitudes of those being approached, this lies firmly as the Enclaves fault. They aren't written and wont be written sympathetically until Fallout: New Vegas.

 

And that Vault incident you are talking about? That was an assault by the Enclave themselves on Vault 13 to kidnap genetically "pure" humans to experiment on along with those people they kidnapped from Arroyo. They weren't provoked.

[Vulvokunvrii]

There could be a whole bunch of reasons. But there isn't. Their entire motivation is that they are. You can't excuse them for their direct and main character traits that are heavily apparent by claiming they "Could" have had another reason than being the lol-evil entity that the Enclave was. And you cant excuse their actions by saying that they refused to deal with the Enclave fairly, when the enclave was already responsible for kidnapping about two to three entire towns at this point. This has nothing to do with the attitudes of those being approached, this lies firmly as the Enclaves fault. They aren't written and wont be written sympathetically until Fallout: New Vegas.

 

And that Vault incident you are talking about? That was an assault by the Enclave themselves on Vault 13 to kidnap genetically "pure" humans to experiment on along with those people they kidnapped from Arroyo. They weren't provoked.

Hmm, alright.

 

Ooh, thats interesting...

[Kursed]

IN fallout 3 you not only easily become a Bos Knight ,but the brotherhood (At least lion's chapter) are helping the local population.

[Vulvokunvrii]

Here you guys/gals that moderate stuff can lock this thread won, I'm satisfied with BW and Xort's answers.

[DoctorAllosaurus]

Here you guys/gals that moderate stuff can lock this thread won, I'm satisfied with BW and Xort's answers.

Done