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Starfox: Is it meant to be a rail shooter forever or other?


Falcory

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Pretty much just a discussion on what the tittle says. I notice they're a few people who state Starfox is a series that is meant  to be purely an Arcade shooter but they are others who state that bringing other genres into the games are a good choice. This topic is basically meant for those people to expressing their opinion here and get their thoughts out into the open.

Btw, two rules:

No FLAMING.

No trying to force your oppions on others. People are entitled to their OWN opinion.

Now to start off with something, I ask: I know they're are some people who CLAIM that a lot of people hate the genre shift in Starfox. But even if that's true, is there anyway to tell if how the Japanese feel about the subject? I mean, if anything Nintendo is going to mainly listen to complaints that come from that area.

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  • Falcory

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  • Kursed

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  • Mr. Krystal

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  • DZComposer

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Assault style gameplay is the way that Star Fox needs to go, just build on it and make the on foot levels different instead of 'destroy the target' but that is just me.

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Eh, though I did play Starfox 64 a lot, I really don't care what they do so long as it is fun and interesting to play.  Adventures was fun because it had fun puzzles that didn't fluster me. 64 was fun because I was kinda good at it and it was a quick play that I could go to again.

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I wanna see some free roam/sandbox element(s) for some part(s) of a SF game

Assault style gameplay is the way that Star Fox needs to go, just build on it and make the on foot levels different instead of 'destroy the target' but that is just me.

Both things I agree with. Personally I think Starfox should probably emulate the gameplay style of Starwars Battlefront II, but that's just me.

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now soemthing like that I'd go for falcory.  i think they should stick to the assault style gameplay with a even mix of On foot and on rail missions to satisfy all.

but honestly i think they should stick to battlefrontI style as you had alot more options of on foot combat. intgrate some of the battlefrontII things like space battles but  take the Battlefront one on foot (Prone,duck run walk jump)

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Guest Julius Quasar

What if they could make Star Fox's play element like, uh...Grand Theft Auto, maybe?

And you could switch to a map of Lylat, and choose which planet or space quadrant  to go to, and upon selection of that location, you go there automatically (NO "Fly through 5 Gold Rings to get to..." like in Adventures, tho)

I mean, hell, your characters in GTA are kinda..."Merc for hire" anyways

just a thought

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What if they could make Star Fox's play element like, uh...Grand Theft Auto, maybe?

I mean, hell, your characters in GTA are kinda..."Merc for hire" anyways

IN GTa your a badguy..
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Personnaly i think the starwars battlefront game play would work better for 3 reasons

1.star wars is already sci-fi

2. the gameplay works very well

3.I havn't played enough GTA to really tell.

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but honestly i think they should stick to battlefrontI style as you had alot more options of on foot combat. intgrate some of the battlefrontII things like space battles but  take the Battlefront one on foot (Prone,duck run walk jump)

Yeah that's one thing that was annoying in Assault. You couldn't crouch or duck. Plus your teamates on the ground acted like they were retarded. (Especially Slippy) SWBII's AI was a lot better.

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Yeah that's one thing that was annoying in Assault. You couldn't crouch or duck. Plus your teamates on the ground acted like they were retarded. (Especially Slippy) SWBII's AI was a lot better.

yeah but the Only think I don't like about SWBII is YOU CAN"T PRONE  in SWBI you could prone  and be a very small target I made a good habit of using it. Defintly annoying in assault  I mean  seriously does Krystal or Fox even not know how to crouch I bet both of them could prone very well considering Fox's experiaince and Krystal's well Past.
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I think that the simple Assault-style system should be retained, but refined. I actually didn't have problems picking up the controls, and the simplicity from not having a billion options at any given second made the game very light, approachable and fun.

I would like to see a free-roaming aspect, though. Honestly, a cleaner, more refined Assault would suit me just fine.

It'd also be fun to play as the characters from the Starfox AND Starwolf teams, as well as some of the recurring characters (Katt and Bill especially).

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I like the fact that in Assault, its both. I like on-ground fighting (however, SFa's Ground battles could've been a little better, IMO.) And the on-rails aspect is also a plus. I would say-

Oh wait, I don't have to type this all...

Honestly, a cleaner, more refined Assault would suit me just fine.

Kthxbai :P

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I think that the simple Assault-style system should be retained, but refined. I actually didn't have problems picking up the controls, and the simplicity from not having a billion options at any given second made the game very light, approachable and fun.

I would like to see a free-roaming aspect, though. Honestly, a cleaner, more refined Assault would suit me just fine.

It'd also be fun to play as the characters from the Starfox AND Starwolf teams, as well as some of the recurring characters (Katt and Bill especially).

^Second this.

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^Second this.

That's what we mean by the battlfront play.
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I've played both the SW Battlefront games for a long, long time. And that isn't exactly what I'm thinking of.

I'll be saving my opinion on how I want the next game to be for the "next starfox game" thread. My answer to the question this thread asks however is: No, I don't want to limit it to just on-rail shooting.

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I should add that Assault was the first game other then flying and driving sims that I have ever really gotten into... The fun (and simple) gameplay and the awesome story and characters are what hooked me after the rail shooting pulled me in. Levels like Sargasso, with the free-flying combat, were a nice bonus too.

I really have trouble getting in to specific niche games like shooters and adventure games because they're just a little on the serious side. And I have no idea what Star Wars Battlefront plays like. O.o

to sum it up, I love the rail shooting, and the roaming levels are good too. Keep the balance.

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  • 2 months later...

Trying to justify this in-universe does nothing to my point, being that Nintendo made a nonsensical decision by putting Star Fox into Dinosaur Planet.

The reason wasn't because Pepper said "It's about saving the planet, not blowing it up" it's because rare needed an excuse for Fox not to have a blaster so that they didn't have start over from scratch on the gameplay mechanics, which would have further delayed the game.

___________________

Even though this was directed at Kursed, I only agree with you on two things. Yes it was an excuse, but I'm not sure if it's even your place to say the move was nonsensical.

You can state you didn't LIKE the change, that it bothered you, but in honestly the Adventures mission wasn't nonsense. If Link was to get into a Space fighter and fight giant monkeys, well yeah that is nonsense. Technology obviously doesn't exist in that universe. But Starfox going onto a primitive planet isn't nonsense.  That's because Starfox has the technological side to it, so going back to some primitive planet is something THAT could be done in sensible terms. LoZ doesn't have the privilege of doing this because it's in a Dark Age era and NO technology exists.   

But you use that one point, which wasn't even the central point of my argument, to absolve SFAd from any blame in what happened to the fanbase, while ignoring the other points I made repeatedly.

I'm not interested in debating the central point of your augment. Even if I tried, THERE'S nothing to debate about there. I was mainly just trying to point out what a stupid reason it was to blame Adventures. I understand it wasn't the central part of the "Fall of the Fandom", but I'm talking about it even getting PARTLY blamed. There should be no blame on it at all. (For what you're talking about anyways) 

That doesn't disprove what I said. Nintendo should not have done that to Rare. It was one of the factors that led to Rare and Nintendo separating.

Also, you don't know that they would have lost money. Yes, costs would have gone up, but the additional development time could have led to a game that would have doubled the sales. In business, it is hard to make a call like that unless you have the actual numbers in front of you.

.....

*Sighs*

Just WHY do you think they rush games man?

If you don't know, lemme clarify....

Companies have various projects that they work on in the spans of years. Some need more attention than others of course. This means, that to make time for some of the other more important projects, they need to finish their OTHER projects on time. So what happens when they're a little off schedule? They're force to rush a lesser OR current project. Because what will happen if they try to delay said lesser/current project?

For the slow ones in the back let me explain:

They're forced to put some more time and effort in lesser/current project, taking away time from the other projects. In this case lets just say a upcoming Legend of Zelda game. But putting some time and effort in the lesser/current project is taking away some also more valuable time from the LoZ project, therefore that's going to come along slowly too. But wait! Oops! The new Mario project! They gotta work on that one too!

Just for the sake of time I'm going to skip ahead here about ten years.

Okay. So it's been a while, but they've finally done it! They've completed the three games. But....oooooh. >_< There's a problem. Next GEN is out! So...that means...these games aren't going to sell very well! Well damn, now you gotta call em back in so they can be worked on AGAIN so that they'll be compatible for the Wii. Means new Graphics are going to have to be worked on, new debugging for the controller scheme ect ect. And to just to cut right to it, but the time these games would even SEE the light of day, Nintendo would have lost TONS of money. All because, the lesser project wasn't rushed.

Now there are even more horrible events that could stem from them not rushing Adventures, but I got a ton of stuff to do so I wanna make this quick. 

Fristly, the community had it's ways of dealing with people like that. They weren't a new phenomenon. Need I mention Seppel again?

Secondly, it was a contributing factor. The reason I was debating it with you is that you ran with it as if it were my primary point.

Explained this at the top. If you just want to talk about how the whole thing went down as a whole, stop responding to my posts as you know which issue in general I'm talking about.

No, you miss the point again.

SFAd WAS a genre shift! How much shooting is in this game? Very little.

And for this I'm going to have to direct you back to my Wind Waker explanation again. Besides this wasn't what your last post was talking about anyways. You said it wasn't nonsensical that Fox was walking around outside of his Arwing. It was because he used a Staff and rode Dinosaurs instead of using a Blaster and Landmaster. 

This is unimportant. My point was that they took SF into a crazy, nonsensical direction. If you want to label the direction something else, go ahead. It is still nonsensical.

I wouldn't call it a Magic Dungeon Adventure that's for sure. And as for the nonsense thing, explained above.

Stay out of universe, please.

The reason for no blaster was technical, not story. Rare didn't want to redo the mechanics to allow for it. You mention the earlier trailer. They likely tried to include it and the realized they'd have to redo the mechanics from the ground-up.

Of course the reason for the Blaster was technical. But at least Nintendo gave a good explanation, so it can be overlooked . A person who HAS a good explanation and is STILL trying to complain about it, IS a person who's "Too Complainy".

Which he promptly abandons in favor of a magic stick and an annoying tag-along dinosaur.

Well okay he abandons two things. Wow. That's his WHOLE inventory.  :oops:

The goal is the Power Star/Shine Sprite. When you get it, the level ends. Mario is still a platformer. Everyone+dog still classifies it that way. Even those who classify games for a living. Moby Games, for instance: http://www.mobygames.com/game/wii/super-mario-galaxy calls SMG a platformer (All platformers are in the Action genre on Moby), and here's their definition: Platform: Describes any action game where the playfield is set up as a series of floors, levels, or platforms for the player to navigate. Platform games usually require a small bit of strategy and/or puzzle solving. Examples: Prince of Persia, Dark Castle, etc. Part of the Perspectives and Viewpoints category.

And Link has to defeat a boss to end the dungeon. Fighting game much? No. Mario doesn't even reach a goal/or the end of a level anymore, it has worlds and really as far as I've seen, Mario doesn't even HAVE levels anymore. That's a core element in Platformers.

I'm sick of arguing about idiots, OK? I was placing the blame on SFAd for the entire situation, not just the idiots.

For the entire situation? Wow you're digging yourself deeper and deeper bro. I know some people left because they preferred the older style of gameplay, but's that's their opinion and Adventures never did anything so drastic to FORCE them to do that. Besides to be honest I've been saying "Fall of the Fandom" a lot and really that hasn't even happened yet. SF still has a lot of fans-more than I thought even existed. I think you're just sore at the few people who did go.

:facepalm:

You missed my point AGAIN. I am not talking about the same situation.  Reread, please:

"I meant a Star Fox adventure game planned from the start to be a Star Fox game and given a reasonable development cycle."

I didn't say Rare had to make it. I didn't say it had to replace DP. I merely said that if this hypothetical game existed, then it likely would have been better received. You took off with this "it was impossible to make" thing that is unrelated to the point.

????

Then why the hell are you talking about this? This could be the next Starfox game for all we know, and we're ACTUALLY supposed to be talking about Adventures. Of course that would probably be more well received, but focus. Heads out of the sky please.

Calling people "too complainy" is a fancy way of saying STFU.

Calling people "Too complainy" is a fancy way of saying "Too complainy" dude. Don't try to make something out of my post that isn't. You can STATE that you think someone/some people are too complainy but you're NOT telling them to STFU. If I want you to shut the hell up, I'll come right out and say it.

And here is the problem. I AM talking about the situation as a whole. I have been since the beginning, and have been trying to frame this debate in that context. It was you who latched on this idiots meme, despite my prodding and protests. I can only assume you're doing so because it is the easiest angle for you to attack, despite it being largely irrelevant.

If you don't want to debate the larger issue, then you may as well stop now.

Explained above for the most part. Btw not the most easy, most LOGICAL.

And to be honest I was about to say the same thing.

Since you don't understand my word choice, I will rephrase that:

1. The fact that I am an admin is irrelevant to this debate.

2. I would debate this with you anywhere, even on a board where I am not an admin. IE: I am debating this because of my opinions on the subject, NOT because I am an admin.

3. I am NOT trying to exert control over you. I am merely defending us older fans from your "too complainy" attack.

Then why did you specifically say "Even if I WASN'T a Admin"?  You're saying that as if a Admin must debate this particular subject with people, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned your adminship at ALL.

Btw no one ever accused you of trying to exert control over anybody. I don't know where you pulled that from, but I've actually GOTTEN suspicious that you are in someway after making a fuss, when no one even SAID anything to provoke such spoken things. (Not in the previous thread anyways)

And your last sentence concerns me. You said you were defending old fans from my "Too complainy" attack, when it wasn't even an attack at all. I merely stated my opinion from the things I've noticed before. So please, don't feel like you GOTTA change my mind of otherwise. 

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I think that the simple Assault-style system should be retained, but refined. I actually didn't have problems picking up the controls, and the simplicity from not having a billion options at any given second made the game very light, approachable and fun.

I would like to see a free-roaming aspect, though. Honestly, a cleaner, more refined Assault would suit me just fine.

It'd also be fun to play as the characters from the Starfox AND Starwolf teams, as well as some of the recurring characters (Katt and Bill especially).

Ditto couldn't have said it  better myself.
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Honestly, a mixture of raill shooter, and third person is great. I would like to see a SF Assault with SF64's missions.

And no SFC... :)

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On-rails shooter is how it started.

On-rails shooter is how it became popular.

On-rails shooter is how it achieved it's level of polish that it has never gotten from other genres.

The nature of convergence dictates that two things are inherently harder to do than one thing, no matter how many resources are available.

On-rails is the only logical choice for the time being.

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On-rails shooter is how it started.

On-rails shooter is how it became popular.

On-rails shooter is how it achieved it's level of polish that it has never gotten from other genres.

The nature of convergence dictates that two things are inherently harder to do than one thing, no matter how many resources are available.

On-rails is the only logical choice for the time being.

This isn't the 1970's anymore, how many rail-shooters do you see on the market today? Do you see everyone crying out for more rail-shooting games? No. We hated the invisible walls, I don't see why a game where your movement is limited and your path is predetermined would be any better.

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This isn't the 1970's anymore, how many rail-shooters do you see on the market today? Do you see everyone crying out for more rail-shooting games? No. We hated the invisible walls, I don't see why a game where your movement is limited and your path is predetermined would be any better.

Excellent point.

Rail shooters were pretty fun back in the day, but now they can get quite boring as far as replay goes. Adventure formula's usually can keep you occupied for months if you try to find everything, and there are usually different ways you can go about doing certain tasks making good for replay value again.

Btw Mr Foxer uhhh you should have said the 1990's. lol....

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Btw Mr Foxer uhhh you should have said the 1990's. lol....

I was talking about arcade games, with the light guns and all that.

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