No. Ko., oh no!

[Guest Julius Quasar]

In this thread, we're here to talk about North Korea.

Their disgusting bloated man-baby leader, has enslaved the people, isolated his country from the rest of the world, there's been no advancements for that country since the communist establishment there, the people are eating GRASS (literally), as the wealthy elite live in that beautiful palace retreat on that lake...Kim Jong Il has mandated his picture be displayed in ALL No. Ko. homes, and they're inspected every day by the soldiers, to make sure the picture is there, and not vandalized...he throws himself these huge mandatory attendance "surprise birthday parties" in his honor...

He kidnapped a South Korean Film maker and his wife, and forced the film maker to make a movie in Jong Il's honor...one of KJI's own sons defected to South Korea, and I can't say I blame him.

"Come to North Korea!  Where you will want to stay, and I will make you stay!" 

They got Nuclear missiles and weapons, but...they suck, IMO.  They are still a threat, but they probably could be contained...hell, China could beat them if they wanted to...

There's this area in China where a river simply separates No. Ko and China, and on the China side of the riverbank, you see thriving stores, businesses, and more.  It looks like downtown San Gabriel, Temple City, or Arcadia.  You see across that river, are...rusting fishing boats/trawlers, rotting away because the fishermen, they can't go fishing without permission, and the boats have now fallen into disrepair.  A long closed amusement park sits there, slowly decaying.  There are decaying buildings, with no utilities, and the peasants there have to compete with rats for space there.  That side of the river bank is completely dark at night, but the China side is extremely well lit.  It's so well lit, you can see sever North Korean peasants moving across the rotting bridge span from their side of the river to China's side, they come to the Chinese side to search the trash cans or to beg for food, and many of the residents and merchants there feel so sorry for them, they sometimes do leave food for them.

The peasants are always very skittish, and don't always STAY on the Chinese side, for they fear if they do, they will be found and punished by the authorities, or their families in No. Ko. might be punished for their running away.  They take a big risk just to come over to the China side of the river bank to forage/beg for food each night.

Any other thoughts on North Korea?

[CrypticQuery]

Yeah, North Korea to me seems quite a bit like the novel 1984 by George Orwell, a negative society.

[Guest Para Astaroth]

I hear that South Korea and North Korea are touching lightly on rejoining the nations back into one -- I saw it on Yahoo! one afternoon whenever I got home from school.

[CrypticQuery]

I hear that South Korea and North Korea are touching lightly on rejoining the nations back into one -- I saw it on Yahoo! one afternoon whenever I got home from school.

Well, that seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, in fact I'd say--

[Guest DRL]

The trouble is that, while China made

it's famous 'Socialist Reform Program',

all the nations in it's sphere were encoraged

to also make it. North Korea resisted, however,

and also resisted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika',

and any 'De-Stalinization' attempts were also

resisted.

To date, the the 'People's Democratic

Republic of North Korea', is anything BUT

of the People or Democratic.

In other words, it remains as the last bastion

of Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our

days.

[CrypticQuery]

The trouble is that, while China made

it's famous 'Socialist Reform Program',

all the nations in it's sphere were encoraged

to also make it. North Korea resisted, however,

and also resisted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika',

and any 'De-Stalinization' attempts were also

resisted.

To date, the the 'People's Democratic

Republic of North Korea', is anything BUT

of the People or Democratic.

In other words, it remains as the last bastion

of Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our

days.

^The above [shadow=blue,left]HYPER[/shadow] statement sums it up nicely :D

[Guest Julius Quasar]

The trouble is that, while China made

it's famous 'Socialist Reform Program',

all the nations in it's sphere were encoraged

to also make it. North Korea resisted, however,

and also resisted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika',

and any 'De-Stalinization' attempts were also

resisted.

To date, the the 'People's Democratic

Republic of North Korea', is anything BUT

of the People or Democratic.

In other words, it remains as the last bastion

of Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our

days.

Totally.  China has a McDonalds in Tiennamen Square, Beijing, and Vietnam has one in Hanoi Square.  When Richard Nixon opened trade relations with China, it slowly got them to economically capitalize their economy, using the rudimentary free market...it helped make money/infrastructure for their country, and Vietnam saw this, and, well, "Monkey see, monkey DO!" (no offense to any Vietnamese out there).

I don't like NAFTA sending American jobs to China, that's not what Nixon ever wanted to happen, but I am glad that China is not like North Korea.

I hear that South Korea and North Korea are touching lightly on rejoining the nations back into one -- I saw it on Yahoo! one afternoon whenever I got home from school.

sadly, though, I heard recently a South Korean war ship was sunk, and the South Koreans are blaming the North Koreans...

Well, that seems like a perfectly reasonable idea, in fact I'd say--

Ha ha, nice pics!

[Guest DRL]

Totally.  China has a McDonalds in Tiennamen Square, Beijing, and Vietnam has one in Hanoi Square.  When Richard Nixon opened trade relations with China, it slowly got them to economically capitalize their economy, using the rudimentary free market...it helped make money/infrastructure for their country,

Korea.

That is because China noticed the faults

of Capitalism, but also noticed the faults

of Communism. Their economic system

is pretty much similar to the one I suggest

using for my country. State services, a few

national mining/extraction industries, and

everything else is pretty much privatized.

and Vietnam saw this, and, well, "Monkey see, monkey DO!" (no offense to any Vietnamese out there)

Well, it is just that. They noticed

their far-more-powerful neighbours doing

economy reforms that ACTUALLY WORKED,

and they thought they could pretty much do

the same. Same to Laos, Cambodia, and

a few other countries around.

I don't like NAFTA sending American jobs to China, that's not what Nixon ever wanted to happen, but I am glad that China is not like North Korea.

Well, that is just one of the risks of Free Trade.

But yeah, I am glad that China decided to make

those reforms. Can not say it is perfect - they still

get their share of protests and everything - but

I would rather live in China than North Korea.

To be honest, the day North Korea abandons their

Nuclear weapons, reunification with the south will

pretty much take place. Or at least it will accept

reforms, unless the North Koreans happen to

be soooooo unlucky that they get a Kim Jong Il clone

(I hope they do not, however. They are in badly

need for reforms/unification).

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I heard Kim Jong Il might not even be alive anymore...though that being the case, he still has at least one nasty son who's gonna take over.

[Guest DRL]

I heard Kim Jong Il might not even be alive anymore...though that being the case, he still has at least one nasty son who's gonna take over.

I hope their sons, if he has any,

are far more open-minded than him.

What I dislike greatly from Stalisnists

it is just that: They preach to work for

'The People', but if you are even A LITTLE

against their policies, you can call yourself

VERY LUCKY if they only arrested you and

left it at that. Furthermore, they try to

cover up their selfishness with Communists

slogans, claiming that they are doing the right

thing for everyone. BUT, if they are doing the

right thing, why is his people in so much suffering?

Compare North Korea to Vietnam - You will notice

what I am trying to say.

[Robert Monroe]

North Korea is an embarassing relic left over from the Cold War. I know some missionaries who do charity work over there, so I've seen (illegal!) photos of how the place looks. It is not a good place at all. China is bad too, from what they've shown, too, but NK is just completely horrible.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

North Korea is an embarassing relic left over from the Cold War. I know some missionaries who do charity work over there, so I've seen (illegal!) photos of how the place looks. It is not a good place at all. China is bad too, from what they've shown, too, but NK is just completely horrible.

I've seen [illegal] photos like that too, from refugees who defected to South Korea, then moved here...I also saw [illegal] footage from documentaries and such...Yeah, North Korea is frozen in time since the Cold War...

Everywhere else in the world, Communism is either gone or fading (China, Vietnam, Cuba...)...North Korea is one of the only ones left, if not THE only one left, that holds onto communism.

[Redeemer]

Bitch be crazy. I read some crazy stuff about him, how in his auto-biography it says he was born under a double rainbow, how he doesn't poo or pee like everyone else, how he controls the weather with his mind... What.

I tried to get access to this book but when I searched, I was redirected to an electronic form so I could request access, and it would be sent to the Korean government.

[Guest Julius Quasar]

I like when people make fun of Kim Jong Il:

(violence/rude humor warning) 

[Konchaski]

I hope their sons, if he has any,

are far more open-minded than him.

What I dislike greatly from Stalisnists

it is just that: They preach to work for

'The People', but if you are even A LITTLE

against their policies, you can call yourself

VERY LUCKY if they only arrested you and

left it at that. Furthermore, they try to

cover up their selfishness with Communists

slogans, claiming that they are doing the right

thing for everyone. BUT, if they are doing the

right thing, why is his people in so much suffering?

Compare North Korea to Vietnam - You will notice

what I am trying to say.

Sadly to say, from what I read about his son he's just as about as crazy and terrifying as his father. If not worse in all instances. Either way, as you stated?  Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our days. Like Rob said, it's an embarassing relic although I wouldn't give Vietnam, China, Laos, or Taiwan a free pass to say they're a lot better since they have a terrible history with human rights. Though they're not nearly as bad as North Korea, they still rank pretty high up there. 

( Sorry Rob, I almost wrote North Carolina.  )

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Sadly to say, from what I read about his son he's just as about as crazy and terrifying as his father. If not worse in all instances. Either way, as you stated?  Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our days.

Yeah, but he has another son who wants nothing to do with him, that other son defected to South Korea and changed his name.

Like Rob said, it's an embarassing relic although I wouldn't give Vietnam, China, Laos, or Taiwan a free pass to say they're a lot better since they have a terrible history with human rights. Though they're not nearly as bad as North Korea, they still rank pretty high up there. 

True, those places suck as well, though they're not as bad as No. Korea, yeah.

[Asper Sarnoff]

I like when people make fun of Kim Jong Il:

(violence/rude humor warning) 

Then you should watch Team America.

Actually, the situation in North Korea is among the very few things that border on being to serious to even joke about. I hope that one day, the people of North Korea will be free and able to join the rest of the world community in peace, but as it is now, it does look like it will take quite a while.

[Guest DRL]

Everywhere else in the world, Communism is either gone or fading (China, Vietnam, Cuba...)...North Korea is one of the only ones left, if not THE only one left, that holds onto communism.

It did not fade, it 'reformed'.

See this example.

It has greatly reduced the ideological

issues with economy and socials, but is still

more-or-less Socialist.

Chinesse Communist is just that: The economics

of a Socialist (non-Communist) State, with the

goverment body & relative organization of a Communist one.

[Robert Monroe]

Sadly to say, from what I read about his son he's just as about as crazy and terrifying as his father. If not worse in all instances. Either way, as you stated?  Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our days. Like Rob said, it's an embarassing relic although I wouldn't give Vietnam, China, Laos, or Taiwan a free pass to say they're a lot better since they have a terrible history with human rights. Though they're not nearly as bad as North Korea, they still rank pretty high up there. 

( Sorry Rob, I almost wrote North Carolina.  )

NORTH CAROLINA IS BEST CAROLINA

[Guest Julius Quasar]

Then you should watch Team America.

Actually, the situation in North Korea is among the very few things that border on being to serious to even joke about. I hope that one day, the people of North Korea will be free and able to join the rest of the world community in peace, but as it is now, it does look like it will take quite a while.

I've seen that! xD

It did not fade, it 'reformed'.

See this example.

It has greatly reduced the ideological

issues with economy and socials, but is still

more-or-less Socialist.

Chinesse Communist is just that: The economics

of a Socialist (non-Communist) State, with the

goverment body & relative organization of a Communist one.

Well, North Korean style Communism has faded elsewhere in the world, I meant to say.

Cahirman Mao's cat: "Meow"

Chairman Mao: "No, kitty, that's my Kung Pao Chicken"

NORTH CAROLINA IS BEST CAROLINA

:lolhyst:

[Guest DRL]

I've seen that! xD

Well, North Korean style Communism has faded elsewhere in the world, I meant to say.

Oh, it is okay then.

["User"]

In this thread, we're here to talk about North Korea.

YAY!!! North Korea!  (I was wondering when this would show up eventually)

Their disgusting bloated man-baby leader, has enslaved the people, isolated his country from the rest of the world, there's been no advancements for that country since the communist establishment there, the people are eating GRASS (literally), as the wealthy elite live in that beautiful palace retreat on that lake...Kim Jong Il has mandated his picture be displayed in ALL No. Ko. homes, and they're inspected every day by the soldiers, to make sure the picture is there, and not vandalized...he throws himself these huge mandatory attendance "surprise birthday parties" in his honor...

He kidnapped a South Korean Film maker and his wife, and forced the film maker to make a movie in Jong Il's honor...one of KJI's own sons defected to South Korea, and I can't say I blame him.

North Korean also sunk a South Korean ship (confirmed by an international team of investigators) and the only party that stood in the way of tough sanctions is China...go figure. 

They got Nuclear missiles and weapons, but...they suck, IMO.  They are still a threat, but they probably could be contained...hell, China could beat them if they wanted to...

They just want attention...they've been whores in that department since the Korean War. 

There's this area in China where a river simply separates No. Ko and China, and on the China side of the riverbank, you see thriving stores, businesses, and more.  It looks like downtown San Gabriel, Temple City, or Arcadia.  You see across that river, are...rusting fishing boats/trawlers, rotting away because the fishermen, they can't go fishing without permission, and the boats have now fallen into disrepair.  A long closed amusement park sits there, slowly decaying.  There are decaying buildings, with no utilities, and the peasants there have to compete with rats for space there.  That side of the river bank is completely dark at night, but the China side is extremely well lit.  It's so well lit, you can see sever North Korean peasants moving across the rotting bridge span from their side of the river to China's side, they come to the Chinese side to search the trash cans or to beg for food, and many of the residents and merchants there feel so sorry for them, they sometimes do leave food for them.

Doesn't surprise me.  The situation down there is miserable.

I hear that South Korea and North Korea are touching lightly on rejoining the nations back into one -- I saw it on Yahoo! one afternoon whenever I got home from school.

North Korea for the longest time has publicly stated that's their "goal" but their actions over the last few decades say completely otherwise.  Furthermore, such a reunification would mostly benefit the north, and not nearly the south.  I don't think it's in the south's best interests...ESPECIALLY right now with tensions between the two countries at a high not seen in decades.

The trouble is that, while China made

it's famous 'Socialist Reform Program',

all the nations in it's sphere were encoraged

to also make it. North Korea resisted, however,

and also resisted Gorbachev's 'Perestroika',

and any 'De-Stalinization' attempts were also

resisted.

Pretty much what the U.S.S.R. did post WW2

To date, the the 'People's Democratic

Republic of North Korea', is anything BUT

of the People or Democratic.

Same with the ruling 'People's Democratic Republic of Congo.  Completely in name only...and anything BUT. 

In other words, it remains as the last bastion

of Stalinism/Military Totalitarian state in our

days.

There are other Military Totalitarian states out there.  Burma for example, or "Myanmar" as the Dictatorship changed it's name to after seizing power.  Or did you mean to referto EXCLUSIVELY renaments from the Stalin years?

Totally.  China has a McDonalds in Tiennamen Square, Beijing, and Vietnam has one in Hanoi Square.  When Richard Nixon opened trade relations with China, it slowly got them to economically capitalize their economy, using the rudimentary free market...it helped make money/infrastructure for their country, and Vietnam saw this, and, well, "Monkey see, monkey DO!" (no offense to any Vietnamese out there).

Lol...don't get me started on Vietnam too!

I don't like NAFTA sending American jobs to China, that's not what Nixon ever wanted to happen, but I am glad that China is not like North Korea.

Means cheaper products for you and me compared to if they were made in America.

sadly, though, I heard recently a South Korean war ship was sunk, and the South Koreans are blaming the North Koreans...

More like the International Community

That is because China noticed the faults

of Capitalism, but also noticed the faults

of Communism.

For the record Capitalism is by far the best system for doing world economics.  While Capitalism is not perfect, any "faults" that arise come down to individual greed among individuals and corporations.  It pisses me off to see so many people bashing a system like this but can't offer any type of alternative that has ACTUALLY BEEN PROVEN TO WORK.  Any other system of doing economics has not been nearly as effective in the long term as Capitalism for everyone.  In China's case they are exploiting cheap labour and making employees work 60+ hours weeks in factories with inhumane conditions - hence why that country over all is doing so well, at least financially and from a GDP growth standpoint.  China IS becoming more capitalist though...especially with the ways their businesses are buying up stuff all over the globe and more recently with the PRC's decision to let their currency (the yuan) float on world currency markets.

To be honest, the day North Korea abandons their

Nuclear weapons, reunification with the south will

pretty much take place. Or at least it will accept

reforms, unless the North Koreans happen to

be soooooo unlucky that they get a Kim Jong Il clone

(I hope they do not, however. They are in badly

need for reforms/unification).

North Korea has everything to gain right now from reunification economically...what does the south have to gain from it atm?  The north went the wrong way since the Korean War while the south went the right way embracing democracy and free trade principles.  While seeing the country reunite would be nice...right now the south really doesn't get that much from it economically...except I guess in the case of no threat of war hanging over the country's head.  I don't see anything like this happening anytime soon...unless Kim Jong Il gets assassinated or something and someone who isn't a crazy madman AND embraces a non-dictatorship comes to power.

North Korea is an embarassing relic left over from the Cold War. I know some missionaries who do charity work over there, so I've seen (illegal!) photos of how the place looks. It is not a good place at all. China is bad too, from what they've shown, too, but NK is just completely horrible.

The human rights abuses there are amongst the highest in the world.

how he doesn't poo or pee like everyone else

So he craps out of his mouth?

What a load of crap!

[Guest DRL]

Pretty much what the U.S.S.R. did post WW2

Specially the 'Perestroika/Glashost'

(or whatever 'Glanghost' is spelled

correctly) part.

Same with the ruling 'People's Democratic Republic of Congo.  Completely in name only...and anything BUT. 

Such a shame.

For the record Capitalism is by far the best system for doing world economics.  While Capitalism is not perfect, any "faults" that arise come down to individual greed among individuals and corporations.  It pisses me off to see so many people bashing a system like this but can't offer any type of alternative that has ACTUALLY BEEN PROVEN TO WORK.  Any other system of doing economics has not been nearly as effective in the long term as Capitalism for everyone.  In China's case they are exploiting cheap labour and making employees work 60+ hours weeks in factories with inhumane conditions - hence why that country over all is doing so well, at least financially and from a GDP growth standpoint.  China IS becoming more capitalist though...especially with the ways their businesses are buying up stuff all over the globe and more recently with the PRC's decision to let their currency (the yuan) float on world currency markets.

Yes, most fault comes to greed.

That is why [modern] socialists agree

that we should not let a company become

uber-big, or to be too dependant on foreing

investment, for example. 'Regulation' is the

key to the Global Revolution success.

(Joking with the Global Revolution part. )

China, yeah, it has reformed

extensively, but mostly to keep up with 'world

power' status. The Yuan thing is so that other

countries fall in it's sphere. My country, specially,

has been doing talks lately with China so that

we can buy stuff from them using Pesos (Arg.

Money) and they can buy stuff from us buying

Yuan (their money.)

[Robert Monroe]

The thing about capitalism is when the companies become so big and powerful that they're the ones in charge, it is NO LONGER CAPITALISM. By definition, capitalism means everyone has a shot at the economy cake slice, so if one monopoly becomes the be-all end-all of companies, you no longer have capitalism, but corporatism. It's basically 21st century aristocracy, really.

[Guest DRL]

The thing about capitalism is when the companies become so big and powerful that they're the ones in charge, it is NO LONGER CAPITALISM. By definition, capitalism means everyone has a shot at the economy cake slice, so if one monopoly becomes the be-all end-all of companies, you no longer have capitalism, but corporatism. It's basically 21st century olygarchy, really.

Fixed. becuse I use Aristotle's

difintion of 'Aristocracy', and this

would not be so.

But true. I absolutely depiste corporativism.

It is the anti-socialist ideal, and it directly

conflicts with our goal. Furthermore, it is

an inneficient system, because only a tiny

fraction would get the benefits of everything.