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NOT AGAIN!


Thu'um

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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101127/ap_on_re_as/as_koreas_clash

Now North Korea are blaming the U.S., saying that we somehow orchestrated their attack so we could move our ships in there.

Seriously? They're blaming us for an attack that they themselves launched? Yes, the wargame was planned for a while, but what do we have to do with this?

We don't want another war, we're already in the middle of one, and our economy is in shambles, we'd be ruined if we were to start another fight, so why would we?

:facepalm: Looks like North Korea is trying to kill two birds, South Korea and the U.S., with one stone.  Although anyone with EYES can see through their bullshit, something honestly needs to be done, but full military mobilization will never work in the long run.  Only time will really tell I assume.

*Sings*

...If the external debts, stole, our springs,

to-heck with Geography, the borders are over!

*Finishes singing*

Bravo! :P *applause*

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Please feel free to prove me wrong

The current war the USA has been fighting opened to a good start, when armies met armies. The total chaos now is the result of a guerilla style (COUGHVIETNAMCOUGH) war being fought by small groups almost impossable to entirely squash. If norht korea would have the Balls to actually do something rather than sit in the coner and touch itself to how bad its being, then we would be fighting a standing army, a military force that is centralized and easy to find. Kim jong ill, or his son, or even both, would stand a chance. UIn my opinion

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North Korea's ONLY ally is China, and that's where they get all of their military equipment. North Korea is a very impoverished country, and by cutting themselves off from the rest of the world, China has become their only benefactor trade-wise.

And China is actually getting very upset with what North Korea is doing. And you have to think, they have trading ties with EVERYBODY, particularly with the Western Nations.

China is the key to solving this without starting a full scale conflict. Whatever they decide to do will tip the scales.

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China is the key to solving this without starting a full scale conflict. Whatever they decide to do will tip the scales.

The last thing China wants is any war in that area and it's very likely they will do ANYTHING to prevent it.  Don't be surprised if something like assassinating NK's leadership covertly ends up happening.

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America, sticking it's nose in once again.

The US has a mutual defense treaty with South Korea, so if someone attacks South Korea, it is the US's business.

The North has a similar treaty with China, which is what worries me. Read up on the Korean War. It was not good. It also never officially ended. There was a cease-fire, but not a peace treaty.

A diplomatic solution must be found. If the Koreas go to war, it could lead to WWIII. If the US goes in, China will go in, likely prompting NATO and Japan to go in, which will likely get Russia to go in, too. I've always said that the Middle East is not the place to look for WWIII, but rather the Korean Peninsula due to all of the chaining alliances involved.

Also, China has the US economy by the balls because of the stupidity of the US government in allowing all of the country's manufacturing to be outsourced there. The Chinese would likely cut that trade line off if they went to war with the US, knowing how damaging it would be.

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Hey that's what we get for sticking all our dumb manufactering where it doesn't belong....

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The US has a mutual defense treaty with South Korea, so if someone attacks South Korea, it is the US's business.

The North has a similar treaty with China, which is what worries me. Read up on the Korean War. It was not good. It also never officially ended. There was a cease-fire, but not a peace treaty.

A diplomatic solution must be found. If the Koreas go to war, it could lead to WWIII. If the US goes in, China will go in, likely prompting NATO and Japan to go in, which will likely get Russia to go in, too. I've always said that the Middle East is not the place to look for WWIII, but rather the Korean Peninsula due to all of the chaining alliances involved.

Also, China has the US economy by the balls because of the stupidity of the US government in allowing all of the country's manufacturing to be outsourced there. The Chinese would likely cut that trade line off if they went to war with the US, knowing how damaging it would be.

The problem, DZ, is that what you said is...

TRUE.

What will happen if full-scale war erupts?

WWIII? Revolutions? Cold War? The Global Conflict?

Ideologies of Old?

FRAG IT, OH NO!

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The thing is though China is fed up with N.Korea's bullshit, so there is an element of uncertainty there.

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Quick question, why would it cause world war 3? Just because north korea finally decideds to grow a pair all of the sudden every nation on earth will turn to fight?

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Quick question, why would it cause world war 3? Just because north korea finally decideds to grow a pair all of the sudden every nation on earth will turn to fight?

Its the inter-locking Alliances, which is how WWI started.

NK goes to war with SK, then the USA goes to war with NK because its allied with SK. China goes to war with the USA because it goes to war with NK. Most of NATO and Japan go to war with China because theyre allied with each other and the USA, and so on and so forth.

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Quick question, why would it cause world war 3? Just because north korea finally decideds to grow a pair all of the sudden every nation on earth will turn to fight?

Because, much like the holocaust, every war is compaired to WW1 and 2 because that means your war is serious business. In other words, it's just hype.

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Its the inter-locking Alliances, which is how WWI started.

NK goes to war with SK, then the USA goes to war with NK because its allied with SK. China goes to war with the USA because it goes to war with NK. Most of NATO and Japan go to war with China because theyre allied with each other and the USA, and so on and so forth.

Well said, but how come Nato isnt in afghanistan as much as they could be? how come Nato wasnt in vietnam? The thing about the great war is that the alliances were super secret. In this case  North korea knows that the might of 3 continents will be throw at them.

Because, much like the holocaust, every war is compaired to WW1 and 2 because that means your war is serious business. In other words, it's just hype.

Finally! some one understands!

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Well said, but how come Nato isnt in afghanistan as much as they could be? how come Nato wasnt in vietnam? The thing about the great war is that the alliances were super secret. In this case  North korea knows that the might of 3 continents will be throw at them.

Finally! some one understands!

Ahganisthan is not an officialy declared war on the nation of Afghanistan, and the USA got involved AGAINST the United Nation's wishes. In other words, they're on their own. Vietnam was also never an officially declared war, in that the United States never officially delcared a state of war against the nation of Vietnam, on top of that, Vietnam was during a time when the only nations strong enough to go to war were the United States and USSR, everyone else in Nato was still feeling the pain from WWII on their reconstruction and economy, leaving behind only 2 superpowers, and both of them were unofficially involved with Vietnam.

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Ahganisthan is not an officialy declared war on the nation of Afghanistan, and the USA got involved AGAINST the United Nation's wishes. In other words, they're on their own. Vietnam was also never an officially declared war, in that the United States never officially delcared a state of war against the nation of Vietnam, on top of that, Vietnam was during a time when the only nations strong enough to go to war were the United States and USSR, everyone else in Nato was still feeling the pain from WWII on their reconstruction and economy, leaving behind only 2 superpowers, and both of them were unofficially involved with Vietnam.

okay, ill give ya that. but you spoke of the alliances as if they were solid steel connections beetween countries. China, at anytime, can refuse to back North Korea, and here is the kicker, No one would blame them. Not a non-NK person in the entire world would say, "oh gee wilikers, that mean ol china left NK out to dry. Thats not very nice*wags finger*"

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okay, ill give ya that. but you spoke of the alliances as if they were solid steel connections beetween countries. China, at anytime, can refuse to back North Korea, and here is the kicker, No one would blame them. Not a non-NK person in the entire world would say, "oh gee wilikers, that mean ol china left NK out to dry. Thats not very nice*wags finger*"

I did mention that in a pevious post about China, but you know, people are stupid. Again I cite WWI: most nations got involved because of interlocking alliances and it was really just a clusterfuck that kept on going because France and the Germans hated each other's guts.

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and again i cite myself, those alliances were super secret. North korea knows how much of a cluster f*ck it will be if they invade SK and they know the amount of firepower that will be pumped into their country from all sides.

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some people are ignorant, stupid or simply plain stubborn like that.

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some people are ignorant, stupid or simply plain stubborn like that.

Those are 3 different things. Ignorant means not knowing, so it's not really a bad thing. Stupid is lacking brains, so that is a bad thing, and stubborn Idon't have to explain.

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Those are 3 different things. Ignorant means not knowing, so it's not really a bad thing. Stupid is lacking brains, so that is a bad thing, and stubborn Idon't have to explain.

On the Contrary ingorance can be a bad thing when it's taken to far ,but i think that may tie into  stubborness.
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We don't want another war, we're already in the middle of one, and our economy is in shambles, we'd be ruined if we were to start another fight, so why would we?

Don't wanna sound like I'd like a war, but war makes a country's econemy stronger. Just look at either world war, or the war of 1812.
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and again i cite myself, those alliances were super secret. North korea knows how much of a cluster f*ck it will be if they invade SK and they know the amount of firepower that will be pumped into their country from all sides.

You forget about the Chinese. There is historical precedent for Chinese involvement. That's the whole reason why there are two Koreas to begin with. Back in the 1950s, the US went in to help the South. It wasn't long before China jumped in. It really got nasty when the US tried to take the North to unify Korea under a democratic rule. The Chinese clobbered the Americans, and pushed them back near the current border. Then it became a war of attrition.

While China may be tiring of Kim Jong Il, I highly doubt they'd support the South if war breaks out. Especially if the US gets involved. If the rest of NATO jumps in, what's to stop Russia from supporting the Chinese?

As much as we want to say that NATO and the US are all powerful, they may not be. Russia and especially China are formidable opponents. China has been rapidly modernizing it's military, and having over a billion people, they have one hell of a large conscription pool.

Having technologically superior weapons does not mean victory. Just look at Nazi Germany. They had the most advanced military tech of the era (until the end of the war, at least). They had the best tanks, the best planes, etc. In the end, they were overwhelmed by numbers. The Chinese could theoretically do that to the US. And before you say nukes, China has them, too. Now add the economic leverage China has, keeping in mind that much of the US's advanced military tech is built with components made in China, and the picture becomes quite clear: war with China is VERY BAD for the US.

The North may very well have a small nuke, also. They couldn't hit the US with it, but based on recent missile tests, they sure as hell could hit Seoul, and possibly even Kyoto (I'm sure Japan would like it much to not get nuked again).

There are very very few countries that could stand up to the US Military, but China is one of them. The US can squash the North like a bug, but I guarantee the Chinese wouldn't let that happen. Russian involvement is also possible, seeing as they have a border with the North as well, albeit a small one (~20 Miles).

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Having technologically superior weapons does not mean victory. Just look at Nazi Germany. They had the most advanced military tech of the era (until the end of the war, at least). They had the best tanks, the best planes, etc. In the end, they were overwhelmed by numbers.

To be fair though that happened because Hitler made a whole bunch of really stupid decisions (ex. Operation Barbarossa) and ended up taking on much more then he can chew and near the end of the war so many generals wanted him dead because he kept overruling them.  At the beginning of the war the Wehrmacht was kicking so much ass that at the time it was all but assured that Germany would take control of Europe but taking on too many enemies at one time was what caused Hitler's downfall and if he actually listened to his generals more (he didn't even attend the military academy) then the outcome could have been considerably different.

Also Goring, who was quite cocky, didn't do any better with some of the decisions he made (which were VERY overconfident btw) his failure to take over Britain and the Battle of Britain was a decisive turning point in the war. 

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While China may be tiring of Kim Jong Il, I highly doubt they'd support the South if war breaks out. Especially if the US gets involved. If the rest of NATO jumps in, what's to stop Russia from supporting the Chinese?

Whats stopping russia from helping china is that they despise each other, one of the reasons Nixon opened up relations with China. And they could just stay out of it, for once. i mean, whats the benefits if they defend north korea?

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Whats stopping russia from helping china is that they despise each other, one of the reasons Nixon opened up relations with China. And they could just stay out of it, for once. i mean, whats the benefits if they defend north korea?

Well, Russia would love to see the US fall.

And, they do not want the Chinesse all over Siberia.

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