Sabre Posted February 22, 2011 Report Share Posted February 22, 2011 Long time SFOers will likely already know my love/hate relationship with army men. Either they are top blokes, or arrogant arse holes. Experience has taught me to expect the worst until proven otherwise. I used to believe this attitude was simply a case of wannabe tough guys like those guys who believe having been in prison for unpaid parking tickets or shoplifting makes you the toughest guy in the region. Recently a post from one of SFOs army men made me realise another possable element to this kind of arse holishness. Exclusivity. This realisation came to me reading this They say there's a 45% success rate, which leads to a 75% success rate in Pilot training. I guess I really get a chance to see if I have the Right Stuff. I did a bit of conditional probability (ie. multiplying the probabilities together to get the total probability of success) which came out at about 33% success rate excluding the medical up to now and assuming the stats are accurate of course. That stat is even lower among the general population when you realise few people sign up for the army anyway. So, could this fairly low success rate for a macho disapline be part of what gives army gits a massive ego? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Monroe Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gee, I don't know? Maybe it's because the low odds show that if you succeed you are indeed pretty damn badass? Being a pilot is a rare honor that commands respect, and people enjoy having that respect. It's no different that students who practice hard to be in the top 10% of their class. Its not "massive ego", its human desire to do better than what they have. Everyone is climbing the social ladder because they want to achieve something others could not. There is a romantic and encouraging motivation when you realize you are part of an elite group and you managed to stick it out through something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konchaski Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Everyone <--------------|--------------> Sabre Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samantha Weltzin Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Gee, I don't know? Maybe it's because the low odds show that if you succeed you are indeed pretty damn badass? Being a pilot is a rare honor that commands respect, and people enjoy having that respect. It's no different that students who practice hard to be in the top 10% of their class. Its not "massive ego", its human desire to do better than what they have. Everyone is climbing the social ladder because they want to achieve something others could not. There is a romantic and encouraging motivation when you realize you are part of an elite group and you managed to stick it out through something. You're talking like an elitist! We don't want no elitists here, ya' brainy brain-brain man! Mediocre's the way to be, and if you don't like it, get out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I find this to be frankly a pointless jab at Showtime, and other on the forum associated with the military. In any case, I'll answer. Yes, the military is hard. Most don't realise how hard till they actually try it out themself and see grown men and women drop down to their knees and cry their eyes out of sheer physical and psychic exhaustion. Not weak people, stronger than most civilians I've meet. You get broken down, and rebuilt to fit an entirely new blueprint on how a human being is supposed to work. What you before firmly believed where impassable limits of what you yourself could achieve are broken down as you are forced to work harder, faster and longer than you imagined possible. You are welded together with your teammates, finding deeper levels of friendship than ever before as you stand united in face of brutal challenges. Not everyone manage to cope with the changes, and fall out. Those who remain, only grow stronger from the experience. Yes, for the most part, service make you a better person. Not necesarily better than the other guy who chosed to remain civilian while you were stupid enough to sign up, but better than what you yourself would have been if you didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I disagree completely. If they are stronger, entirely rebuilt super men, why do half of them turn in bullying wankers who can get taken out in a fight by a fat bloke with a pen? (ie. me) Also, it's not a job at showtime if you read my op. You're just getting emotional being an army man yourself. Either they are top blokes, or arrogant arse holes. Experience has taught me to expect the worst until proven otherwise. I used to believe this attitude was simply a case of wannabe tough guys like those guys who believe having been in prison for unpaid parking tickets or shoplifting makes you the toughest guy in the region. My 'jab' was at those who believe a bit of army makes them superior. Of course you seem to have played that exact same card. Super men? Ha. Making beds, cleaning uniforms, pollishing shoes, super maids more like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkyway64 Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 http://www.cracked.com/article_19016_5-myths-about-military-you-believe-thanks-to-movies.html I'm just gonna drop this in here and go. I'd like to direct special attention at number 2 in response to this: You are welded together with your teammates, finding deeper levels of friendship than ever before as you stand united in face of brutal challenges. Not everyone manage to cope with the changes, and fall out. Those who remain, only grow stronger from the experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorAllosaurus Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Alot of these guys were pretty arrogant before they joined the military. Back when I made my first visit to the MEPS to take the ASVAB, there was this one guy who was always mouthing off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZM Anonymous Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 I disagree completely. If they are stronger, entirely rebuilt super men, why do half of them turn in bullying wankers who can get taken out in a fight by a fat bloke with a pen? (ie. me) Also, it's not a job at showtime if you read my op. You're just getting emotional being an army man yourself. My 'jab' was at those who believe a bit of army makes them superior. Of course you seem to have played that exact same card. Super men? Ha. Making beds, cleaning uniforms, pollishing shoes, super maids more like. Sounds like you're talking about the Navy there, chap. Now let me ask you this. Have you had any form of military training at all? If not, then might I suggest you shut the fuck up about what you're talking about? So what if those Army guys have an enormous ego. That's fine with me. Just don't come crying to me when you cross paths with one and get your ass kicked. Plus, some military enlistees are doing it just to get free college. So in a way, students and enlistees have a common goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
"User" Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Alot of these guys were pretty arrogant before they joined the military. Back when I made my first visit to the MEPS to take the ASVAB, there was this one guy who was always mouthing off. And that's but one reason why recently one of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff came out and said that the disillusionment with the military among the public is at an extremely high level right now and that they need to do something about it. I wish I could find the article again and it was pretty informative...fighting unpopular wars using borrowed money that you otherwise don't have (i.e. Iraq and maybe Afghanistan) is generally not a good recipe to earn your armed forces respect amongst the public. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted February 23, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Alot of these guys were pretty arrogant before they joined the military. Back when I made my first visit to the MEPS to take the ASVAB, there was this one guy who was always mouthing off. Seems reasonable. Although "One guy" vs the 50-50 split of arses and nice guys I've met is at odds with that, I'd imagine inside they would likely keep their mouths shut. Sounds like you're talking about the Navy there, chap. Now let me ask you this. Have you had any form of military training at all? If not, then might I suggest you shut the fuck up about what you're talking about? So what if those Army guys have an enormous ego. That's fine with me. Just don't come crying to me when you cross paths with one and get your ass kicked. Plus, some military enlistees are doing it just to get free college. So in a way, students and enlistees have a common goal. This is the counter point, you will have to do better then "Dey wood kik ur ass". Also, you never read the posts, also, as already mentioned, they don't. Ones that have tried failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZM Anonymous Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 Seems reasonable. Although "One guy" vs the 50-50 split of arses and nice guys I've met is at odds with that, I'd imagine inside they would likely keep their mouths shut. This is the counter point, you will have to do better then "Dey wood kik ur ass". Also, you never read the posts, also, as already mentioned, they don't. Ones that have tried failed. Trying and failing is better than not trying at all. And don't try to start a thread post by stereotyping because you sound pretty ignorant yourself. Maybe once in a while, take a look at the environment they're in, assess the factors involved, and then make a decent post. So what if they've failed. As far as I'm concerned, It's hard enough to get in the military anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorAllosaurus Posted February 23, 2011 Report Share Posted February 23, 2011 It's hard enough to get in the military anyway. This is true, they wouldn't take me in because of a back problem I had that I wasn't even aware of, that and I was also under weight so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asper Sarnoff Posted February 24, 2011 Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I disagree completely. If they are stronger, entirely rebuilt super men, why do half of them turn in bullying wankers who can get taken out in a fight by a fat bloke with a pen? (ie. me) Also, it's not a job at showtime if you read my op. You're just getting emotional being an army man yourself. My 'jab' was at those who believe a bit of army makes them superior. Of course you seem to have played that exact same card. Super men? Ha. Making beds, cleaning uniforms, pollishing shoes, super maids more like. Super men? Not exactly what I was saying. Anyway, what personal experience you might have stealing the lunch money of a guy who served in the army a couple of years ago is hardly enough to judge a whole profession on. I hear you mention you appearantly impressive strenght and hand combat experience quite often. Whether or not its standard interweb-amplifying I have no idea, but I do have my doubts about the truth in those claims. There's a reason civilian fat blokes with pens aren't sent into combat zones instead of military fat blokes with guns. As for the supermaid bit. For each of my 10 hour workday, 2 minutes is used making beds, none cleaning uniforms, we just get them changed whenever we want, and 10 secs polishing shoes. The rest is made up of physical excersizes, combat training and servicing vehicles and weapons. So... yeah. http://www.cracked.c...-to-movies.html I'm just gonna drop this in here and go. I'd like to direct special attention at number 2 in response to this: Hehe, entertaining reading indeed, but to my experience far from true. Can't answer for any other nations military, but I guess one can't get away threating ones soldiers as bad in armies based on voluntering. The applicants would probably get scarce over time. And sure, bad eggs can be found in any basket. What makes a difference, is how far you're willing to go for those you go well together with. I for one can't name a lot, if any civilian friends I'd risk my neck for, or expect them to risk theirs for me. Friends I've gained in the army? Couple of dozen. None wants to be the first one to let the team, or the guy standing to your side down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted February 24, 2011 Author Report Share Posted February 24, 2011 I hear you mention you appearantly impressive strenght and hand combat experience quite often. Whether or not its standard interweb-amplifying I have no idea, but I do have my doubts about the truth in those claims. I'm no MMA guy, but I'm certainly above average. How much of that is simply a size and stregth thing is unknown. I also have a bit of training as a ring fighter but never did it for real. My abilities mainly come from a low standard. I couldn't out box a boxer or wrestle a wrestler, but the people who start fights are usually people who don't know what they are doing. Charvers ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chav ) are seen as intimidating but when your opponant looks like this who's experience tends to be 'I was in prison once' and I have a build like this It's not hard to see why fights tend to go in my favour. However, alot of people who start trouble often are/claim to be trained. Karate, Boxing, ect. or Army in this case, tend to not have any skill for street fighting. Boxers don't do well when getting hit with furniture, and army men are not immune to being stabbed with stationary. So, to clear up that point, I make no claim to being a bad arse. I just happen to be more bad arse then people who start trouble. Which brings me to- Anyway, what personal experience you might have stealing the lunch money of a guy who served in the army a couple of years ago is hardly enough to judge a whole profession on. As I have said, army guys tend to be great guys, but half of them strut about going "I was in army, I demand special treatment!" and when they don't get it (and sometimes when they do) they get violent. Also, when you consider Arrogant means "Having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or abilities" and my experience is that alot of army guys do that, then yes, I can judge MOST of a profession as my experience shows these are kind of people it produces. Can't answer for any other nations military, but I guess one can't get away threating ones soldiers as bad in armies based on voluntering. The applicants would probably get scarce over time. The British army is currently a mess right now. A few years ago there was a bullying and hazing ring that was exposed on the news. I don't know the details not being a news junkie, but to this day the armys image hasn't recovered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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