Congressman King hearings

["User"]

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20026083-503544.html

My thoughts on the whole thing is that what's the point of being politically correct when Al-Qaeda is the main target here? When the vast majority (if not close to all) major attacks or scares recently in the U.S. are from members who adhere to radical Islam what is the point of trying to generalize it? That only lessens it's impact to what a serious threat/problem it is right now.

Generally, political correctness has it's place in society but it is so overused recently that is often becomes a hurdle to overcome.

[Samantha Weltzin]

I'm pretty sure we don't want to repeat the Japanese internment camps of World War II or the McCarthy era Red Scare. Or maybe we do. I dunno'. Some people do like generalizing groups in order to create a common enemy to rally against.

Either way, I think it's better to uphold principles than to sacrifice them for the sake of a little more security. How many attacks have we had on American soil since 9/11 anyway? Is the tradeoff worth it?

["User"]

I'm pretty sure we don't want to repeat the Japanese internment camps of World War II or the McCarthy era Red Scare. Or maybe we do. I dunno'. Some people do like generalizing groups in order to create a common enemy to rally against.

Only this isn't that same as those prior occurrences. People are misinterpreting this entire hearing though to think of King as racist/prejudice or what not. If he's prejudice against anything it's radical Islam which almost all Muslims in America oppose anyways. He has quite a number of prominent Muslims testifying at this hearing who completely agree with him and know this needs serious attention. Unlike the McCarthy Red Scare of the 50's (which was just that, a scare) radicalization of Muslims in America IS a serious problem and facts back this up. This is actually Al Qaeda's new strategy because since 9/11 it's been more and more difficult to launch a successful attack from abroad due to heightened security. That American born Islam terrorist who replaced Bin Laden on the Most Wanted List (can't remember his name) who spreads his propaganda targeted to Muslim Americans on sites like Youtube certainly doesn't help.

Either way, I think it's better to uphold principles than to sacrifice them for the sake of a little more security. How many attacks have we had on American soil since 9/11 anyway? Is the tradeoff worth it?

Virtually all Muslims agree with the desire to see Radical Islam as a form of violence and terror disappear and a majority of Americans agree with this hearing. As far as attacks go, in the last couple of years alone how about that guy who tried to blown himself up on Christmas day on a descending plane just over Detroit in 2009? Or those more recent attacks to detonate bombs in Times Square? Or the attempted transferring of bombs from cargo planes from abroad? The last year or two has seen a number of more severe "attempts" and while none were ultimately successful, this just shows you that the problem is getting worse.

[Samantha Weltzin]

To clarify: I'm not saying the hearings are entirely unjustified. I don't think the guy's doing it out of prejudice against Islam, actually, as what he's saying seems pretty mild compared to, say the reaction against the Muslim community center in New York. What I am saying is that a lot of the reason there's hesitation to do this sort of thing is so we don't repeat this sort of thing. We need to walk the fine line to make sure we're not compromising our principles while remaining effective in protecting our citizenry from this sort of thing.

By the way, the terrorist plots honestly aren't any more numerous now than they were in the past on U.S. soil. Check out this timeline (had to check it myself to make sure my assumption was correct), and you'll notice that the headlines we've heard now are just as numerous as the events listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

By the way, what is listed there were -successful- terrorist attacks. Given the low success rate in recent years, I think we're actually doing pretty well in our intelligence and counterterrorism techniques. Could we use more? Probably. Always can, as the terrorist plots adapt, but again: Walk the fine line, and make sure we don't compromise our principles for a little added security.

["User"]

To clarify: I'm not saying the hearings are entirely unjustified. I don't think the guy's doing it out of prejudice against Islam, actually, as what he's saying seems pretty mild compared to, say the reaction against the Muslim community center in New York. What I am saying is that a lot of the reason there's hesitation to do this sort of thing is so we don't repeat this sort of thing. We need to walk the fine line to make sure we're not compromising our principles while remaining effective in protecting our citizenry from this sort of thing.

Agreed.

By the way, the terrorist plots honestly aren't any more numerous now than they were in the past on U.S. soil. Check out this timeline (had to check it myself to make sure my assumption was correct), and you'll notice that the headlines we've heard now are just as numerous as the events listed here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

I've took a look and while I'm quite tired right now I really don't see what you are referring to as it looks like the number of attacks, both attempted and successful actually INCREASED in the past three years as opposed to the 6-7 or so years after 9/11.

Islamic Extremism

* 1977 Hanafi Siege

* 1989 firebombing of the Riverdale Press

* 1990 Assassination of Meir Kahane by Egyptian

* 1990 Assassination of Rashad Khalifa for questioning Koranic verses

* 1993 Shootings at CIA Headquarters

* 1993 World Trade Center bombing

* 1993 New York City landmark bomb plot

* 1997 Empire State Building shootings

* 1997 Murder of Prison Guard by Haneef Bilal [71]

* 2000 H. Rap Brown(Jamil Abdullah Al-Amin) shoots two police officers

* 2000 New York terror attack

* 2000 millennium attack plots

Aftermath of the September 11 attacks

* 2001 September 11 attack

* 2002 Los Angeles Airport shooting

* 2002José Padilla (Abdullah al-Muhajir) Plot

* 2002 Buffalo Six

* 2002 John Allen Muhammad (Washington Sniper) killings

* 2003 Columbus Shopping Mall Bombing Plot

* 2004 financial buildings plot

* 2005 Los Angeles bomb plot

* 2006 Mohammed Reza Taheri-azar SUV attack

* 2006 Sears Tower plot

* 2006 Seattle Jewish Federation shooting

* 2006 Toledo terror plot

* 2006 transatlantic aircraft plot

* 2007 Fort Dix attack plot

* 2007 John F. Kennedy International Airport attack plot

* 2009 Little Rock recruiting office shooting

* 2009 Plot to bomb New York Synagogue and shoot down military planes

* 2009 Dallas Car Bomb Plot by Hosam Maher Husein Smadi [72]

* 2009 New York Subway and United Kingdom Plot

* 2009 Fort Hood shooting

* 2009 Colleen LaRose arrested (not made public until March 2010)

* 2009 Failed Christmas bombing of Northwest Flight 253

* 2010 Attempted suicide car crash on Whitestone Bridge

* 2010 2010 Times Square car bomb attempt

* 2010 King Salmon, Alaska local meteorologist and wife assassination plots

* 2010 Alleged Washington Metro bomb plot

* 2010 Alleged car bomb plot against Portland,Oregon Christmas tree lighting ceremony

* 2010 Alleged plot to bomb military recruiting center in Catonsville, Maryland

* 2010 Abu Talhah al-Amrikee death threats to South Park Creators- See: Zachary Adam Chesse [73]

* 2011 Alleged Saudi Arabian student bomb plots

By the way, what is listed there were -successful- terrorist attacks. Given the low success rate in recent years, I think we're actually doing pretty well in our intelligence and counterterrorism techniques. Could we use more? Probably. Always can, as the terrorist plots adapt, but again: Walk the fine line, and make sure we don't compromise our principles for a little added security.

It lists both in that article. And yeah, they are catching more and more plots but my point is that regardless of whether they are successful or not they are clearly increasing.

[Samantha Weltzin]

Yes, there's an increase in Islamic terrorist attacks, but those aren't the only ones that count. It just happens to be who's focusing on them right now. The point was that there have been plenty of attacks on U.S. soil, regardless of Islamic origins or not.

Since the focus right now comes from extreme Islamic groups, sure. It makes sense to focus attention toward them when searching out plots. You already know how I feel about the "fine line," though, so the main reason I replied was to point out that I wasn't talking about Islamic attacks specifically, but terroristic attacks and attempts in general. There really haven't been many more in recent years than there were in the past. They just come from different groups, is all.

[fox1235]

I just don't want to have people going nuts on Muslims.

I heard in a few states their trying to outlaw that prayer they do 5 times a day.

[Wes]

I just don't want to have people going nuts on Muslims.

I heard in a few states their trying to outlaw that prayer they do 5 times a day.

I won't be surprised if that happens.

RELIGIOUS FREEDOM.

[DZComposer]

We've seen this movie before, and it doesn't end well. This is straight-up Joe McCarthy shit.

You don't stop Islamic terrorism by treating Muslims as if they are terrorists until proven otherwise. The whole reason we've seen a rise in Islamic terrorism is because we are in Iraq and Afghanistan, and because we never publicly criticize Israel when it commits atrocities on the Palestinians (and it does). IE, they think we treat Muslims like shit. And now, we REALLY ARE starting to treat Muslims like shit.

Also, Muslims are not the only terrorists, either. If the goal is to stop terrorism, ALL terrorism should be investigated.

Here is a list of non-Muslim right-wing militia movement, anti-government, Neo-Nazi, and anti-abortion extremist terror plots and attacks since 9/11:

2001: North Carolina - Steve Anderson kills a cop, in his home and car pipe bombs and racist anti-government materials are found

2001: California - 2 Jewish terrorists arrested for plot to bomb a mosque and bomb Rep. Darrel Issa's office.

2002: Nashville, TN - Neo-Nazi Michael Edward Smith arrested for pointing an assault rifle at a Jewish school, bombs and guns along with Nazi propaganda are found at his house

2002: Terror ring busted for plotting to kill judges, district attorneys, and cops.

2002: Johnson County, NC - KKK members arrested for plot to bomb Johnson County Sheriff's Office

2002: Tampa, FL - Robert J. Goldstein arrested, bombs, a list of Florida Mosques, and a detailed attack-planning document are found in his home

2003: Chicago, IL - Neo-Nazi group leader arrested for planning to kill judges

2003: Washington state - Assassination plot against WA governor Gary Locke by a man appointed as WA Gov. by a militia group

2003: Pennsylvania - KKK Wizard David Wayne Hull arrested for plot to bomb abortion clinics

2003: Idaho - "Water Oz" CEO arrested after plotting to murder judges and IRS agents for trying to collect back-taxes from his company

2003: Noonday, Texas - Man arrested after huge arsenal found in a storage unit leased by him. Enough weapons to equip a small army, including bombs and crude chemical weapons. Also discovered was a document describing an unintelligible plot.

2003: California - Man arrested, large arsenal found in storage unit, plot unearthed for large anti-government killing-spree.

2003: Michigan - Man arrested for plot to stage an auto-wreck and ambush arriving police with home-made armored fighting vehicles armed with machine guns. Functional Anti-Aircraft gun found on his property.

2004: Oklahoma City, OK - Neo-Nazi Sean Gillespie arrested for firebombing a Jewish synagogue.

2004: Tulsa, OK - Father-and-Son team commit a politically-motivated bank robbery, killing a security guard

2004: Tennessee - Demetrius Crocker arrested for purchasing large amounts of C4 and some Sarin nerve gas. Had aspirations of detonating a WMD in Washington, DC

2004: Scottsdale, AZ - Diversity center mail-bombed by white supremacists

2005: Chattanooga, TN - KKK member arrested for selling bombs to undercover cops claiming to be willing to bomb Hispanic immigrants

2006: Utah - Anti-tax crusader David J. D'Addabbo arrested for threatening to kill IRS employees

2007: Alabama - Militia group broken-up for growing pot, large arsenal found at their camp, along with anti-government and anti-hispanic propaganda. Planned to kill federal agents.

2008: Pennsylvania - Militia Group busted for plotting to kill federal agents

2008: Denver, CO - Two men are arrested for drugs. Sniper rifles and disguises are found with them. They claim to be in Denver to assassinate Barack Obama during the Democratic National Convention. They are not charged since they were found to be high when they made the claim.

2008: Tennessee - Two white supremacists are arrested for a plot to assassinate Obama and go a killing-spree targeting black people.

2008: Belfast, ME - James G. Cummings is killed by his wife. Police discover he was building a dirty bomb (a type of nuke) in response to Obama's election

2008: Knoxville, TN - shooting at Knoxville Unitarian Church, shooter wanted to "exterminate liberals"

2009: Cape Verde, MA - Keith Luke goes on a killing-spree targeting blacks in response to Obama's election

2009: Wichita, KS - Assassination of George Tiller

2009: Washington, DC - Holocaust Museum shooting

2009: Arivaca, AZ - Minutemen founder kills a hispanic family during a robbery, including a 9-year old girl, falsely believing they were drug smugglers. The motive was taking the drug money to fund the Minutemen group.

2010: California - A man, inspired by Glenn Beck, kills cops after being pulled over while en-route to the Tides Foundation, a progressive fundraising organization, and the ACLU San Francisco office to murder employees of both organizations.

2010: Austin, TX - plane flown into IRS office

2011: Tuscon, AZ - assassination attempt on US Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords

Today: Alaska - Militia members arrested in plot to kill state troopers

A comparable number of events to the Islamic ones. So, why aren't these guys being investigated? When the DHS warned of the threat from these types, the same people who support this hearing went crazy and accused the Obama administration of calling Republicans terrorists. The DHS apologized for the report, which was commissioned when Bush was still in office.