Battle Engineers and Body-hit snipers.

[Vy'drach]

That's all I see with this update, the Deus-Ex update.

Your thoughts, however?

http://www.teamfortress.com/deus-ex/

[King of the Shrooms]

not sure if body shot snipers, but combat engy just got put on the map and hard, widowmaker + gunslinger and your set for life

[LoneWolf]

Yeah, I'm really digging the new items. The recipes aren't super expensive and they're not just reskins.

Plus, they look badass.

[Guest Mr. Nintendo]

The Machina: Doesn't sound like a good Sniper weapon to me since it makes you more of a Body-shot Sniper than a Sniper...plus it tracks you down. Watch for incoming Heavies and Spies.

The Diamondback: So basically, this weapon is like the Ambassador, only when you attach your sapper to the Engy's buildings...you get a crit shot? I have mixed feelings for this but I'd rather use the Enforcer than this revolver.

Purity Fist: Since when did Heavy ever have the ability to to have robot arms? Oh well, it goes well with my Terminator Heavy skin.

The Widowmaker: You're joking right? Using metal as ammo and it costs 60 metal to fire? Dumb weapon for me and you really need to save metal for your buildings...stick to your Shotgun.

The Short Circuit: Oh goodie, another Dr. Grordbort item-wannabe. While the cost for metal to shoot this is not so bad as the Windowmaker...it still sounds like a joke weapon to me.

The Company Man: Looks more like a Mann Co. hat re-skin to me than a normal hat...oh well, I'll get better offers with Ellis' Cap than this.

The Nanobalaclava: Spy is a Transformer or Megaman? I really don't get it...

Deus Specs: Junk item, stick to the Sniper's normal shades.

[Vy'drach]

The specs are all class, and I say the Diamondback is all but useless since it gets crits only if the building is destroyed while your sapper is on it, where as the Enforcer is a static damage increase, and the Ambassador is a guaranteed 102 damage all around if you're accurate.

Plus the new Engineer weapons only seem good for Gunslinger battle engies, or for Engineers with their buildings already well established and a lack of a lot of metal.

Though the Widowmaker might be good for anti-demoman. If it's a nice big area of effect for the shot, you might be able to take LnL shots out of the air.

[Sabre]

Looks cool, not sure it would fit with the 50-60s asthetic of TF2 though. But it's right up my street.

That said, good to see the engie finally getting some love. The shotgun seems cool but can it beat frontier justice w/ mini sentry combo? Might take it just for the look however. Items for spy engie and heavy? All it needs is some pyro stuff and all my classes are covered.

[Xortberg]

According to Shroomprince, the Sniper rifle pierces buildings even. Sounds hella good to me.

[Milkyway64]

The Machina: Doesn't sound like a good Sniper weapon to me since it makes you more of a Body-shot Sniper than a Sniper...plus it tracks you down. Watch for incoming Heavies and Spies.

The Diamondback: So basically, this weapon is like the Ambassador, only when you attach your sapper to the Engy's buildings...you get a crit shot? I have mixed feelings for this but I'd rather use the Enforcer than this revolver.

Purity Fist: Since when did Heavy ever have the ability to to have robot arms? Oh well, it goes well with my Terminator Heavy skin.

The Widowmaker: You're joking right? Using metal as ammo and it costs 60 metal to fire? Dumb weapon for me and you really need to save metal for your buildings...stick to your Shotgun.

The Short Circuit: Oh goodie, another Dr. Grordbort item-wannabe. While the cost for metal to shoot this is not so bad as the Windowmaker...it still sounds like a joke weapon to me.

The Company Man: Looks more like a Mann Co. hat re-skin to me than a normal hat...oh well, I'll get better offers with Ellis' Cap than this.

The Nanobalaclava: Spy is a Transformer or Megaman? I really don't get it...

Deus Specs: Junk item, stick to the Sniper's normal shades.

Look at you, Mr. Presumptious Judge of all Worth with no experience. Look, I will do it too, but make them sound completely OP.

Let's break this down:

The Machina: Straight upgrade to normal rifle because the only downside is no noscopes. The tracer thing means nothing since killcam gives you away, the alleged building pierce means you are more credit to team as you have more jobs, and the damage increase is a multiplier to a multiplier, meaning it will benefit headshot snipers more than body snipers even if it does help both.

The DiamondBack: Not-Enforcer-Great but still better than AmbASSador and L'ebad. The damage penalty isn't totally crippling compared to vanilla revolver (though it is a significant jump compared to enforcer) and stored crits = boss. If you use it stealthily, as say, a long-range back stab, a full nest of engie buildings grants between 1 and 2 instant kills on any target barring overhealed heavy. And you don't have to deal with aiming for the head nor waiting for one second to cool off between shots. In short, less offense oriented and more stealth oriented than Ambassador, but only with engies around.

Purity Fist: Since when did Engie need a robotic arm?

WidowMaker: Camping engie's dream. Fools wanderin' up in your crap? Unload with your infinite-clip shotgun! That metal in the dispenser/nearby crate wasn't doing much other than being a wasted safety measure anyhow, and if you don't suck at aiming, you won't even need them. Not a camping engie? It's okay, run n gun between ammo crates to support your mini sentry with no pants-down moments.

Shortcircuit: The camping engie's other dream. Silly demos, thinking they can counter you.

The Company Man: An actually consistent baseball cap? Sold.

The Nanobacalava: Being Stealth-Megaman is a BAD thing?

Deus-specs: cool shades bro

[ThePointingMan]

Looks cool, not sure it would fit with the 50-60s asthetic of TF2 though. But it's right up my street.

That said, good to see the engie finally getting some love. The shotgun seems cool but can it beat frontier justice w/ mini sentry combo? Might take it just for the look however. Items for spy engie and heavy? All it needs is some pyro stuff and all my classes are covered.

That's the lovely thing about TF2, in a lot of maps there will be doors open a little bit that you cant walk through or windows showing massive amounts of high tech stuff, even in deg-root keep there is a door with a bunch of computery thingy's inside, and its supposed to be back in time!

[Xortberg]

And on the subject of body shots, I'm of the opinion that entirely too much weight is put on headshots. Let's look at the stats:

- Fully charged Sniper shot does 150 damage

- Scout, Medic, Sniper, Engineer and Spy and instantly killed by 150 damage

- Demoman and Pyro are severely crippled by such damage

- Soldier is running for a healthpack or Medic after such damage

Now, I'm not saying you should ignore headshots; if you see a Soldier and are confident enough in your skills to shoot him in the head, go for it, and body shotting a Heavy is pretty foolish in most cases. But considering over half the cast is one shotted by a full body shot and only two of the nine aren't completely crippled, body shots are an easier source of overall credit.

Adding 15% damage bumps that up to 165 damage, which won't add any more instakills from full, but will mean more kills overall, since most of the time a player isn't at full health anyway. Demoman and Pyro get clipped by anything beforehand, and 165 damage is taking them out. Add in the fact that it pierces enemies and apparently buildings, and going for body shots is a hell of a good idea.

[Sabre]

And on the subject of body shots, I'm of the opinion that entirely too much weight is put on headshots. Let's look at the stats:

- Fully charged Sniper shot does 150 damage

- Scout, Medic, Sniper, Engineer and Spy and instantly killed by 150 damage

- Demoman and Pyro are severely crippled by such damage

- Soldier is running for a healthpack or Medic after such damage

Now, I'm not saying you should ignore headshots; if you see a Soldier and are confident enough in your skills to shoot him in the head, go for it, and body shotting a Heavy is pretty foolish in most cases. But considering over half the cast is one shotted by a full body shot and only two of the nine aren't completely crippled, body shots are an easier source of overall credit.

Adding 15% damage bumps that up to 165 damage, which won't add any more instakills from full, but will mean more kills overall, since most of the time a player isn't at full health anyway. Demoman and Pyro get clipped by anything beforehand, and 165 damage is taking them out. Add in the fact that it pierces enemies and apparently buildings, and going for body shots is a hell of a good idea.

It's slightly above 165. 150 + 22 = 172. Other than that the maths still work.

As for using the sniper. I'm a low risk kind of guy, so going for body shots is fine for me.

That's the lovely thing about TF2, in a lot of maps there will be doors open a little bit that you cant walk through or windows showing massive amounts of high tech stuff, even in deg-root keep there is a door with a bunch of computery thingy's inside, and its supposed to be back in time!

I know that, it's like fallout in that it's 50s futurism, but to a lesser extent. Compare the engie robo hand with its pressure guages and pull start motor, to the heavy arm which is very sleek and streemlined. There are items of clothing that don't fit the theme, but this is the first set of weapons as far as I know.

[Milkyway64]

Anything goes in TF2 nowadays, it seems. It doesn't take itself seriously and arguably never has.

About the rifle, I didn't notice the "full charge" condition. I thought it always did +15% damage, so I thought you could quick scope for 175-ish instantly.

[Vy'drach]

From my experience, the rifle actually doesn't shoot through Engineer buildings. I aim at an Engineer's head while he's behind the turret, fire, no dead Engie.

Though the sound it makes is bad-ass.

[Xortberg]

It's slightly above 165. 150 + 22 = 172. Other than that the maths still work.

That's what I get for trying to do math. In any case, 172 damage fully charged means all it takes to one-shot seven out of nine characters is getting touched by even a stray SMG shot beforehand. Sounds nice.

From my experience, the rifle actually doesn't shoot through Engineer buildings. I aim at an Engineer's head while he's behind the turret, fire, no dead Engie.

Though the sound it makes is bad-ass.

I was basing my assumption on shroomprince's testimony, so I didn't expect it to be completely reliable :-P

[Vy'drach]

Yeah, just tossing that out there, in case anyone wanted the rifle specifically for that, as people on Ponychan did with that rumour. It makes me sad that it doesn't, though, as it wouldn't be that OP and the hit box on the turrets are way too large anyway.

[Star Fox Runner]

That rifle might make me want to give Sniper a little more effort. Can't wait to find these items.

[King of the Shrooms]

Yeah, just tossing that out there, in case anyone wanted the rifle specifically for that, as people on Ponychan did with that rumour. It makes me sad that it doesn't, though, as it wouldn't be that OP and the hit box on the turrets are way too large anyway.

i had used it once and it TRASHED through a sentry and dispenser and killed the engy on top of it all...

[Scourge]

i had used it once and it TRASHED through a sentry and dispenser and killed the engy on top of it all...

*goes and attempts re-creating the above*

[Vy'drach]

Not doin it for me, just hits the Engineer, and I am at 100% charge rate. I'll wait a couple of seconds after I hit 100%, and still no dice.

I do like that it has a different kill icon for getting a headshot through someone, and just a double body shot. Shame it doesn't do a double headshot icon, though.

[LoneWolf]

I'mma craft the new sniper and test it tonight.

Watching gameplay of the new Engie Pistol, the guy mentions the new engie pistol as a potential spycheck mechanic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-RrAdzHJJAQ

[Sabre]

From the tf2 wiki for the new sniper

A fully charged shot fired by the Machina delivers an extra 15% damage and can pierce through multiple enemies. On the other hand, fully charged shots do not penetrate through buildings, and this weapon fires tracer rounds which can notify nearby enemies of the Sniper's position.

[Thu'um]

i want enginers to leabe their sentries, and come fight me

[Matrilwood]

I always found playing base engineer to be too tedious, sitting around doing nothing except attacking your stuff with a wrench and shooting spies. Where as combat-engy makes a good ambush unit. So it's nice to see them develop in that area.

[Steve]

The replay on-dying cam usually gives the sniper position away anyways, so basically this is an upgraded sniper with no bad perks.

[Sabre]

The replay on-dying cam usually gives the sniper position away anyways, so basically this is an upgraded sniper with no bad perks.

Plus 99% of the good sniper possitions are common knowledge anyway.

There's no no-scoping, meaning that if you have that and a sheild, you're buggered if anything get's to mid range. If you have the SMG you'll be fine. Although this wouldn't be the first TF2 weapon to be really powerful without any meaningful downgrades. 2 that spring to mind is a spy weapon that adds 0.5sec to decloak, and a demoman sticky bomb gun that adds 0.8sec to arming time. If those are a problem, then chances are you are playing wrong.