Series reboot

[Evil Duck]

Hi gang, my first topic, let's see how it goes.

So basically with the recent release of Starfox 64 3D people are now left wondering what's next for the Starfox series - however rumours of a whole series reboot are circulating rather than the story continuing on from command. My question to you is (whether this rumour is true or not) would you mind? Command was such a difficult game to continue from what with it's many endings, and many fan's of the original Starfox 64 have always speculated how every Starfox game after was considered a disaster (their opinion not mine). In my opinion I think it would be foolish on Nintendo's behalf to reboot the series, In truth, I have enjoyed every game since Starfox 64 and feel that if nintendo continue with gameplay like SF64 the whole feel of the genre will become generic and dull - adventures was a bold and brave mood and the result was a highly underrated game that was just as good as SF64 (in my opinion anyway).

So - what say you? Reboot good - or reboot bad?

[DZComposer]

The canon is a complete mess right now. A reboot would be nice.

[Drasiana]

Yeah a reboot. It's not like the canon we have is an epic saga built on such momentously beautiful writing that we don't dare part with it. Command isn't even canon, and if we consider SF643D the beginning of the reboot, then it's really only retconning Assault and Adventures, so big whoop. Yeah yeah I know BAWWW BUT KRYSTLAL they can just find a way to stick her back in there and not make it completely retarded this time.

Do a reboot, and do the series right for a change.

[The Shaper]

I approve of a reboot. Star Fox has gone downhill since 64 due to a number of problems including but not limited to, plot holes, lack of character development, missing background information, and an interesting storyline. Adventures made a bad move by turning itself into a Zelda clone with Star Fox Characters and a small amount of Scifi, Assault attempted to fix the errors made by Adventures but failed to do so as they did not take the necessary steps in fixing Adventures, and command also attempted to get back to Star Fox's original format but also failed to do so and was deemed non-canon.

A reboot of the series could fix all the mistakes made by Nintendo in the last decade by fleshing out the characters, working on the plots and story lines to add a better game experience, and possibly bring back the fan base that put Star Fox on the map back in the 90s.

[Nope.]

I'm totally for the reboot, and judging by the above posts, I don't have to explain why.

[Fluxy]

They already were changing shit in all with the normal series, and basically all there has to been said has been said. Boo hoo, no Krystal if we start a new, but Nintendo knows this. Either they will decide to be a dangerous malevolent being and fully get rid of her, you know, just to spite all you Krystal Fan Boys out there, or they'll simply add her in from a planet that -wasn't- originally named "Dinosaur Planet". And even if they reboot, you still get to keep your games, and the 'Original' and loosely based Canon. A nice change in story would do Star Fox some good. Not to mention good direction too.

[Wes]

I don't know why people would say a reboot would be a bad idea because of Krystal fan boys. If you're a Krystal fan boy, chances are you don't give a shit about SF. Krystal "art" is still going to be docked in the Internet by the boat load whether or not the series is rebooted or if Krystal burns up alive. That's all that matters to Krystal fans.

[Dublinthefox]

I don't know why people would say a reboot would be a bad idea because of Krystal fan boys. If you're a Krystal fan boy, chances are you don't give a shit about SF. Krystal "art" is still going to be docked in the Internet by the boat load whether or not the series is rebooted or if Krystal burns up alive. That's all that matters to Krystal fans.

Thats not true! I myself am a Krystal fan, and I've been a Star Fox fan even before her. Just because people are a fan of a certain character doesn't mean they don't give a piss about the series all together.

[Nope.]

Thats not true! I myself am a Krystal fan, and I've been a Star Fox fan even before her.

Actually, while it could be just a minority, that's kind of true. Don't get too defensive and re-read his post, it wasn't directed to you.

While it's not true that every Krystal fan doesn't care about StarFox, I saw a bunch of them that just wanted her all over the place, stating that every SF game without their favourite blue-boobs fox girl was shit.

[Dublinthefox]

Actually, while it could be just a minority, that's kind of true. Don't get too defensive and re-read his post, it wasn't directed to you.

While it's not true that every Krystal fan doesn't care about StarFox, I saw a bunch of them that just wanted her all over the place, stating that every SF game without their favourite blue-boobs fox girl was shit.

I know it wasn't direted to me, it sounded like he was saying it about all Krystal fans.

[Wes]

I know it wasn't direted to me, it sounded like he was saying it about all people all Krystal fans.

Yeah, I mean people that spend every moment of their lives gawking at Krystal.

[Harmony Descent]

I'm all for a reboot. Like everyone has said, and I agree with Evil Duck on this one, the games were very underrated and I genuinely enjoyed them whether or not they were "horrible beyond belief." (<--- Someone via Skype told me this one day and they weren't from this site, FYI)

Due to my nature of loving violence, I'm fine with Starfox with the way it is and I think it would be a little better if they added a bit more violence. It just feels like all that's going around is soooooo slooooooow and the battles aren't making your blood pumping as much as 64's did.

Wouldn't it feel, and be, a LOT better if they added more sensible speed to the Arwings/Wolfens/Cornerian ships respectively? I'm stuck feeling as though I'm flying toys fighters from a G.I. Joe toyline fighting against what looks like Lego colossuses. It would be very awesome if they added this sense of speed with intense combat mixed in with space. I can see Cornerian and Venomian fighters zipping past one another and constantly shooting off their lasers while the frigates sit back and fire off heavier rounds.

Ground combat would be just the same, but with a lot more devastation. The only level that I felt seemed more "destroyed" was on the Corneria stage in Assault. The layout could have been a little better, but, hey, it was a 2005 GC game and some games didn't have the capacity to broaden the A.I. and detail to the landscapes. I would, personally, love to ride around in a Landmaster and shoot enemies out of the skies, then have them crash into a building which would then have the ship lodged in there smoking, and on fire. That, or having rounds hit buildings and having them crumble then collapse after a certain amount of damage.

Finally, my underlining issue/problem that I really want to see: A better storywriter! It just feels as though, as stated by other users, that the characters aren't broadened enough and we're left scratching our heads -- but in my case bashing my head against a wall until a small hole began to appear. I'm all for a darker themed game, but if the series wishes to stay to it's roots with the Sci-Fi-ish theme they have going on with a sense of heroism and determination, then I'm fine with it. In my personal opinion, I believe a darker game would make it appeal a bit more interesting and help broaden some of the characters' backgrounds, and such, that desperately need it.

As for Krystal: I see her more on the lines of being in her own game. Referring back to one of our fellow members was poking at, I believe Dinosaur Planet would have been best just for her. But, have her on a different planet, whatever it may be, helping the inhabitants with a villain, yada yada yada, OR create a game as a flashback where Krystal was on her home planet growing up until the day it was supposedly "doomed." Standalone game for Krystal, anyone?

To add the effect of awesomeness, or whatever you want to call it, I think it would be cool if they added screen-shaking to the mix whenever a boss, ship, or vehicle of any kind explodes, or anything that would relate to the screen shaking. For instance, crouching behind cover with Fox and the enemy (Venomian, etc.) firing off rifle rounds, hitting the cover Fox is behind, and the screen shaking a little bit from the impacts.

That's my opinion; it would be nice to see it happen though =/

[Psygonis]

Reboot ftw!

I don't mind ending up with Krystal again, but please just make it right this time!!! D:

Dras> I don't thing SF64-3D retcons SFAd and SFA. I believe it was genuinely meant as a remake, and if as a reboot, as a marketing reboot. Fan-base-wise, SF64 is THE fundamentals. So from here, if they want, they can make the SFAd/SFA storyline right (or well... try) or start something new, either equally possible so far.

[Dr. Orange]

Reboot, Nuff said. :cool:

[Psygonis]

^ This. :P

[Drasiana]

Dras> I don't thing SF64-3D retcons SFAd and SFA. I believe it was genuinely meant as a remake, and if as a reboot, as a marketing reboot. Fan-base-wise, SF64 is THE fundamentals. So from here, if they want, they can make the SFAd/SFA storyline right (or well... try) or start something new, either equally possible so far.

I said that, if they were going to do a reboot, it would make sense to start it from SF643D, instead of coming out with another game that then retcons that.

And no SFAd or SFAs remakes, please...D:

[Dublinthefox]

I'm all for a reboot. Like everyone has said, and I agree with Evil Duck on this one, the games were very underrated and I genuinely enjoyed them whether or not they were "horrible beyond belief." (<--- Someone via Skype told me this one day and they weren't from this site, FYI)

Due to my nature of loving violence, I'm fine with Starfox with the way it is and I think it would be a little better if they added a bit more violence. It just feels like all that's going around is soooooo slooooooow and the battles aren't making your blood pumping as much as 64's did.

Wouldn't it feel, and be, a LOT better if they added more sensible speed to the Arwings/Wolfens/Cornerian ships respectively? I'm stuck feeling as though I'm flying toys fighters from a G.I. Joe toyline fighting against what looks like Lego colossuses. It would be very awesome if they added this sense of speed with intense combat mixed in with space. I can see Cornerian and Venomian fighters zipping past one another and constantly shooting off their lasers while the frigates sit back and fire off heavier rounds.

Ground combat would be just the same, but with a lot more devastation. The only level that I felt seemed more "destroyed" was on the Corneria stage in Assault. The layout could have been a little better, but, hey, it was a 2005 GC game and some games didn't have the capacity to broaden the A.I. and detail to the landscapes. I would, personally, love to ride around in a Landmaster and shoot enemies out of the skies, then have them crash into a building which would then have the ship lodged in there smoking, and on fire. That, or having rounds hit buildings and having them crumble then collapse after a certain amount of damage.

Finally, my underlining issue/problem that I really want to see: A better storywriter! It just feels as though, as stated by other users, that the characters aren't broadened enough and we're left scratching our heads -- but in my case bashing my head against a wall until a small hole began to appear. I'm all for a darker themed game, but if the series wishes to stay to it's roots with the Sci-Fi-ish theme they have going on with a sense of heroism and determination, then I'm fine with it. In my personal opinion, I believe a darker game would make it appeal a bit more interesting and help broaden some of the characters' backgrounds, and such, that desperately need it.

As for Krystal: I see her more on the lines of being in her own game. Referring back to one of our fellow members was poking at, I believe Dinosaur Planet would have been best just for her. But, have her on a different planet, whatever it may be, helping the inhabitants with a villain, yada yada yada, OR create a game as a flashback where Krystal was on her home planet growing up until the day it was supposedly "doomed." Standalone game for Krystal, anyone?

To add the effect of awesomeness, or whatever you want to call it, I think it would be cool if they added screen-shaking to the mix whenever a boss, ship, or vehicle of any kind explodes, or anything that would relate to the screen shaking. For instance, crouching behind cover with Fox and the enemy (Venomian, etc.) firing off rifle rounds, hitting the cover Fox is behind, and the screen shaking a little bit from the impacts.

That's my opinion; it would be nice to see it happen though =/

These all sound like great ideas. I also agree with the whole Krystal flashback game. It could give an explanation as to her past and develop her character more. I just hope that she is still in the main story though, but as a better written supporting character. As for a darker story, I was talking to my friend a few months back about this sort of thing and he suggested giving it the same kind of dark feel as to that of Metroid Prime. I can't remember all as to what he said, but that is all I can remember.

[jesseboyd7]

Reboot sounds good too. I too like the idea of it. If Nintendo decides to make the move to create another Star Fox game after their recent release of SF64 3DS, should the next future game be for 3DS or the future console Wii U?

[Evil Duck]

Interesting opinions and you all raise very good points, it's hard to argue there - but I still stand by my own opinion on their being NO reboot but a continuation.

Adventures was a fantastic game in every aspect it's just people were expecting something else (much like the reception to Zelda: Wind Waker), assault and command were so-so....

Command really appeared to be the centre of the problem what with it's endings - If a reboot is to be done; I'd say to keep Adventures and Assault - drop Command.

I know, this seem like me just ranting about how I don't want to lose my childhood games XD

In the least I'd like them to keep adventures - and not make every Starfox game heavily arwing based

[The Shaper]

Interesting opinions and you all raise very good points, it's hard to argue there - but I still stand by my own opinion on their being NO reboot but a continuation.

Adventures was a fantastic game in every aspect it's just people were expecting something else (much like the reception to Zelda: Wind Waker), assault and command were so-so....

Command really appeared to be the centre of the problem what with it's endings - If a reboot is to be done; I'd say to keep Adventures and Assault - drop Command.

I know, this seem like me just ranting about how I don't want to lose my childhood games XD

In the least I'd like them to keep adventures - and not make every Starfox game heavily arwing based

Command isn't the the main issue with Star Fox. The poor writing and characters are the problem. Adventures was never supposed to be a Star Fox game, it was supposed to be it's own game with it's own story line and characters but it was made into a pathetic Star Fox game that was essentially a Zelda clone. It's a good game, but it didn't help Star Fox. Assault didn't do much to fix the errors made by Adventures since all it really did was add more air missions and bring back some old characters. That game was too short and had the same amount of underdevelopment (if not more so) then Adventures did. And Command was just the salting of the wound.

[iTzSparty]

I'd be really happy if they did another reboot. I didn't really think the series would get so bad, but back then I was like "omgz this game is liek most awesome game fur realz!21!" Now that I looked deeper into the whole series, I expect Nintendo to release better Starfox games. Honestly I played Command the least out all of them, and I beat it once in which i mean I got only one ending, and just gave up on the game because of the multiple endings. I don't know If i even beaten Adventures. 0_o

[Evil Duck]

I don't know... Each to his own I suppose - I still think Adventures was a masterpiece. Maybe a "reboot" isn't the right direction but perhaps ignoring the "time line" is the next best thing... Starfox games have always taken place after the previous game, but what if Starfox followed the more Zelda-like approach of no strict timeline allowing more freedom for nintendo to do what they want in the games? Odd Idea, it may work though

[The Shaper]

I don't know... Each to his own I suppose - I still think Adventures was a masterpiece. Maybe a "reboot" isn't the right direction but perhaps ignoring the "time line" is the next best thing... Starfox games have always taken place after the previous game, but what if Starfox followed the more Zelda-like approach of no strict timeline allowing more freedom for nintendo to do what they want in the games? Odd Idea, it may work though

Star Fox is Star Fox though, not Zelda. Adventures was Zelda. The only way a continuation of what Star Fox is now would work is if the new game is perfect down to the last iota. The characters are all fully explained, the story seems believable and makes sense, and there is nothing shrouded in mystery that is supposed to be explained. A reboot is the best thing that could happen to Star Fox as it gives a better opportunity to explain the characters, the backgrounds, and the plots without the thought of Assault and Adventures coming back to haunt the canon story.

[Evil Duck]

I can see where you're getting at emp. Adventures and Assault may indeed have mixed and messed things up a lot. But remember Starfox wasn't really a series then.

Starfox 64 practically ignored the original Starfox on the SNES - Adventures and Assault can similarly be ignored - but not entirely forgotten.

The only major thing Adventures changed in the series was the addition of Krystal; Andross now dead for good it was open to a sequel. Assault changed absolutely nothing leaving the ending open to another Starfox game. Command however really stirred things up; General Pepper's failing health? Peppy the new General? Krystal strange personality change and her being such an arrogant and mean woman? Dash - Andross's grandson?....Andross's ghost?... These were all terrible decisions, the series will work with Adventures and assault - they need not mention Sauria or any of it's characters or indeed the aparoids again.

[Drasiana]

Adventures was a fantastic game in every aspect it's just people were expecting something else

No

Adventures did not fail because everyone who did not like it was a big angry old meany poopypants. It had a very wonky development that led to some very glaring flaws. Sure, like it all you want, you're allowed to and I didn't mind it myself, but at least I can admit the thing's absolute failures.

Command really appeared to be the centre of the problem what with it's endings - If a reboot is to be done; I'd say to keep Adventures and Assault - drop Command.

No one here wants a reboot solely because of Command. Why? Because Command has already been stated as not canon. Which was stupid to begin with, really, creating a game you knew wouldn't actually matter in the series continuity, but that being said.

"They need not mention Sauria or any of its characters" again? Really? That was a pretty big, huge chapter of the series (being that this timeline's only had three canonical titles), and you're suggesting we just forget it ever happened? If that's the case, then what's the problem with the remake? What you are suggesting here is that we simply just forget about all the previous games, yet retain the same timeline, which is a terrible idea because part of the series' current problems stems from not paying enough heed to previous setups and mechanics. Krystal's past? Who cares, tits! Why does Star Wolf hate Star Fox so much? SHUT THE HELL UP JIMMY YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND US *TRUE FANS*. And yet persistently these are issues that have ground down the nerves of the fandom, and to try and resolve all of that in one sitting would just feel like Backtracking: The Video Game.

If the series is rebooted, that doesn't mean that your copies of Adventures and Assault will mysteriously evaporate out of existence. You can still play them. But for the very reasons you brought up there is no reason to hang onto them as they have contributed nothing. Not even Krystal. You know, if they rebooted it, they can still throw her in there, but say actually give her a resolving backstory or character arc or something this time, without going out of the way of the main timeline to do so.

Making Star Fox into Zelda is rediculous, by the way. Link is almost never actually the same dude in Zelda, but they can get away with it because it's a fantasy setting that renews itself into different timeframes and places, and Link himself is a very generic, speechless character. This is pretty much the exact opposite of Star Fox. I wouldn't mind them erasing the timeframes (as in none of this "eight years passed" crap that Adventures pulled) but, with the characters and world set up in the series, it would need to have some kind of sense of linear progression, even if we aren't given exact dates. You can't just have Fox one day as leader of Star Fox saving Corneria and then inexplicably cut to Fox as a researcher on Fichina who is also a train conductor and blablabla in the next game.

We would be losing absolutely nothing by retconning the games, aside from maybe Krystal or Tricky who they could definitely write back in without any issue. There will be no missed character developments or significant plot turns, and yet, we'd be able to smooth over many of the bumps and confusion littered through the past few games. Take a tone, take a story, and stick to it.