ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987 Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Please be kind as I'm stil practising. Hope you like it regardless. ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redeemer Posted July 6, 2011 Share Posted July 6, 2011 Try keeping your work to one topic, there's no need to create a topic for everything you do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted July 7, 2011 Share Posted July 7, 2011 It seems you didn't take any of the criticism I offered in the last post I made >_> The legs still look like tree trunks compared to the twigs that are her arms and body, for one. That needs to change. First things first, I would stop worrying about animation so much as working on improving your art. Get your character designs to be more anatomically believable and the animations you make will probably look much better if for no other reason than the art is good. Second, the movement of the legs needs lots of work. Her knees need to bend. I cannot stress that enough. Knees are not aesthetic. They are all about functionality. They are there so we can actually move around without waddling, which is what she should have been doing with that animation - not moving along briskly. The legs need to be made to look like they aren't just pinned on and swiveling, too. It almost looks like she's an action figure and you're just moving the legs back and forth. Thirdly, and least importantly but still important, you need to put more details into your environment. I do know that Flash is limited, but she's walking on a flat, single shade of green. That isn't grass. If you want it to be grass, add some pieces of it sticking up, and change some of the shading. If it isn't grass, make that more obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deploy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Work on the anatomy of these characters. Really, REALLY work on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 You really need to know something about proportions, perspective and colour theory in static art before you get into animation. You can learn a lot of this yourself by simply doing life drawing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Colour theory, yes, but the other 2, not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Did you just say that you can't learn anatomy and perspective from life drawing? I GUESS THIS GUY'S DOING IT WRONG 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 What the hell are you talking about? Colour theory is needed for animation, not perspective and anatomy. Also yes, that artist is doing animation wrong. Those are stills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Oh yeah sorry I didn't realize perspective and anatomy didn't exist in animation What are YOU talking about? Animation is a series of drawings. Ergo, many of the same principles apply, particularly the basics. Like perspective and anatomy. Sure isn't any perspective here Nope, no anatomy either 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 To some degree I could defend Saber on this one, because with proportion in animation and all, things sometimes can seem very very badly proportioned. BUUT, in my personal opinion, even though it may seem like that, good animations have some sense of consistency and proportion. Like, even with chibi stuff or random comics. The heads may seem WAY too big, but overall, especially when lined up with other things in that animation, it will be all good with it's own unique balance. And Dras, totally agreeing with you on this one. AC, I give you props for even knowing how to properly color things to some degree, as I still dunno how to colour "Correctly" at all and am still in the process of lerning it for my art, but you still got some ways to go [Not saying I don't]. You'll be great at it one day. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 -and South Park doesn't exsist, or do brick movies, or claymation, or indeed any animation outside of the ones in your own personal little world where you know everything because there is nothing to know. Do your research next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Hey Sabre I see you graduated with a master's degree from the Art Institute of Bullshittery Your FA gallery is a real Grade-A portfolio Are you suggesting that perspective and anatomy does not exist in claymation (which I have worked in) or South Park? Then you are an inconceivable idiot. There is a big difference between "everything is realism" and "using the base concepts of perspective, anatomy and colour theory to develop your style into an aesthetically pleasing medium". If you knew anything about these concepts then you'd be able to offer help without saying something as gigantically idiotic as "you don't need perspective in animation", but then again you've already proven on numerous occassion that perspective is not your strong suit. Sorry for the derail, AC. But for a tip, there are some very good tutorials on deviantArt regarding colour theory, anatomy, style, etc. Plug 'em into the search there and you'll get a lot of really helpful information to help you improve your art! There are a lot of professionals on the site (surprisingly) and it's awfully considerate of them to offer their help in that form. There's only so much art you can learn by having it TOLD to you, and part of it is just practicing. It is just very helpful to know movement when you get into animation; the way humans, animals, and the like function kinetically. While these may be exaggerated for the sake of cartooning, they all have their basis in the reality of motion, so observing movement around you in real life is vital. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Despite what Dras says, take some advice from someone who is trained and experienced in this. Practice only gets you so far, you can greatly speed up the process by reading, watching, ect. The basics of colour theory are easy. Primary and Secondary colours go together, as do the triangles things can get more complex, but that is the main thing to know. Everything moves, everything moves in arcs, humans are lazy, less is more so if in doubt go for the smaller movement over the bigger one. Those are good tips I keep coming back to. While made for 3D, a good primer for walking animation is Mancandy FAQ. You can find it on torrents or youtube if you look around. It explains important things like stopping feet from seeming like blocks, and the importance of going 'bink'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xortberg Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Despite what Dras says, take some advice from someone who is trained and experienced in this. Show me these animations that you're oh so experienced in. Please, I'm serious. I'd love to see what you've done that'll just throw everything Dras said out the window. That is, if you've got anything to back yourself up. Which, of course, I doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 LOL OH MY GOD YOU'RE SUCH AN ASSHOLE Seriously, Sabre? Look at yourself. Look at your options. Look at your FurAffinity gallery. I'm sure you're getting hundred-dollar commissions from your Ms Paint stick furries. Google isn't the shield you're using it as, and in my post I CLEARLY told him to read and research. But I also told him to practice, because you NEED to. You can't just read something and magically get better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Despite what Dras says, take some advice from someone who is trained and experienced in this. Practice only gets you so far, you can greatly speed up the process by reading, watching, ect. Well, I'm gonna let the others pick at your other parts of this post, because it is gonna be funny, but this is soooooo bad... Creativity should not be rushed or sped up. Let it grow naturally, and try not to go too fast, because if you try too, and you see yourself taking a small step back in skill, it will make you wanna quit and never try for a looong time. Give it the time it deserves. That is how I went with my art and by others word, I have grown a lot already myself just by that. Don't try to speed it up. Watch videos to get ideas, and maybe a trick or to of course, but let your growth and skill be natural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Well, I'm gonna let the others pick at your other parts of this post, because it is gonna be funny, but this is soooooo bad... Creativity should not be rushed or sped up. Let it grow naturally, and try not to go too fast, because if you try too, and you see yourself taking a small step back in skill, it will make you wanna quit and never try for a looong time. Give it the time it deserves. That is how I went with my art and by others word, I have grown a lot already myself just by that. Don't try to speed it up. Watch videos to get ideas, and maybe a trick or to of course, but let your growth and skill be natural. I disagree. I spent years doing things the 'natural' way and improved little as I was making the same mistakes repeatedly. It sounds noble, but the truth is "practice" is just "trial and error". If you know what the common errors are you can make lots of progress. Animation is a very time consuming form of art. It takes alot of drawing so you can waste tons of time doing crap. Speeding up the process to something that is effecient is vital. You could spend 2 weeks on each frame, but you would never finish a film legnth show. Look at any detailed manga that was turned into a TV show, the detail drop is so the show can actually be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I still fail to see how you're a superior artist to me. Nor have you provided any animations that prove you're as good as you say, especially given how you actually draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fluxy Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I disagree. I spent years doing things the 'natural' way and improved little as I was making the same mistakes repeatedly. It sounds noble, but the truth is "practice" is just "trial and error". If you know what the common errors are you can make lots of progress. Animation is a very time consuming form of art. It takes alot of drawing so you can waste tons of time doing crap. Speeding up the process to something that is effecient is vital. You could spend 2 weeks on each frame, but you would never finish a film legnth show. Look at any detailed manga that was turned into a TV show, the detail drop is so the show can actually be completed. Practice is not just trial and error. It builds skill so long as you keep something to try and attempt to do. You don't just automatically gain the motor skills to move your hand in the just right finessful ways; It takes lots of effort, and, oh, I dunno, practice. And yet, their animation and art took PRACTICE, including knowledge of ANATOMY and PROPORTION. =/ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Of course it takes practice, but practice alone is not an effecient way to do things. Speaking of which, in your hand example. "Perhaps its best if I move like this" -trial "Hmm, that didn't come out as I hoped, maybe if I do this..." -error Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drasiana Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Lol dodging the question Sabre, go away, and stop fucking up AC's thread with an attempt at flaunting your nonexistent superiority. He wanted help, I offered it, and you chose to fly off on an insane diatribe you are now avoiding answering to. If you really, really want to continue trying to convince me that you're better than me at everything, take it to PM ffs. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nope. Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 What the hell are you talking about? Colour theory is needed for animation, not perspective and anatomy. wat. I make furry sprites and characters for Fighter Maker 2002 when I'm bored, so let me just tell you that you are wrong. A lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faisul Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 Practice is not just trial and error. It builds skill so long as you keep something to try and attempt to do. You don't just automatically gain the motor skills to move your hand in the just right finessful ways; It takes lots of effort, and, oh, I dunno, practice. And yet, their animation and art took PRACTICE, including knowledge of ANATOMY and PROPORTION. =/ ^ This guy knows what he's talking about. Practice as a concept exists to help elevate a skill in a certain discipline. Virtually anything you do in life could be called practice in some way, well, except for all the sleeping and eating and pooping and stuff. And being lazy. Hrrm, flimsy argument, moving on. There is a big difference between "everything is realism" and "using the base concepts of perspective, anatomy and colour theory to develop your style into an aesthetically pleasing medium" It is just very helpful to know movement when you get into animation; the way humans, animals, and the like function kinetically. While these may be exaggerated for the sake of cartooning, they all have their basis in the reality of motion, so observing movement around you in real life is vital. ^ so does this dude. Bitchin' pig avatar, by the way, captures the mood of your posts pretty well. That and you're actually giving helpful critique. I know you tried, Sabre, that colour theory bit of yours was neat and most likely made in goodwill, but everything else really just screams of self-importance with no real basis. Of course it takes practice, but practice alone is not an effecient way to do things. It sure isn't efficient, but we weren't born with all the skills we need to express ourselves artistically or otherwise pre-programmed into our brains. We practice to get better at stuff, sure there are short cuts, but to truly understand how to create visual art, you NEED to spend that time to develop your skills and understanding of everything that visual art entails (including colour theory, proportion, shading, anatomy, motion, etc. etc.) Just the same with writing, rhetoric, competitive projectile vomiting et cetera ad infinitum, basically anything not instinct. You can cut corners all you want, crank out some half-assed doodle and call it a day, convince yourself that you've accomplished something, and try to convince others that you have the right to talk smack because they disagree with your (faulty) opinion on art, but dude, I don't need to tell you that you're wrong, all these other people did a wonderful job of it. So take the advice given, and think about it for a second before you start replying, you might have an epiphany. DISCLAIMER: I'm no artist and I sure don't know half of what you guys are talking about but it sounds right so I'm with team Flux/Drasiana until Sabre convinces me otherwise Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARWINGCOMMANDER 3987 Posted July 9, 2011 Author Share Posted July 9, 2011 If you must know I've been modifying it. I think I might have gotten better with bending her knees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre Posted July 9, 2011 Share Posted July 9, 2011 wat. I make furry sprites and characters for Fighter Maker 2002 when I'm bored, so let me just tell you that you are wrong. A lot. How? You haven't explained how I'm wrong. The OP can accept whatever advice he wants for any reason he wants. Simply saying "Dur, he be wrong." doesn't achieve anything. Also, much like Dras, you assume the only form of animation is the one you did once. If you are working with premade models, lego, puppets, ect. then perspective and anatomy are not needed. There's no harm in having the knowlage, but it's not going to help you. In this case, the person is working in flash, which involved moving parts that are built ahead of time. Anatomy will help a model builder if you are going for something realistic, but otherwise there is no need for it. Assuming the point of this thread is the walking animation only, perspective and anatomy will do nothing to improve the walk. DISCLAIMER: I'm no artist and I sure don't know half of what you guys are talking about but it sounds right so I'm with team Flux/Drasiana until Sabre convinces me otherwise I was ready to do just that, but then you said that and revealed your troll hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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