More mature Star Fox?

[Star Fox Runner]

Are people actually claiming that the reason Star Fox hasn't done well lately is because it isn't "dark enough", and not because the games just suck

because um

hell that's pretty self-explanatory isn't it

The thing is, blood and guts and swearing and TITTIES don't exactly equate to maturity. In fact the way the "hardcore gamer" demographic eats it up lends to the exact opposite. If someone finds a direct correlation between game sales and the degree of grimdarkness (and NOT other aspects of marketing) then please, let me know, but as it stands it looks like absolute bollocks. Look at some of, not only the most best-selling, but most memorable games of all time; Zelda, Pokemon, motherf'n PAC-MAN.

The disconnect with Star Fox, see, is occurring with the continually more recognized status of video games as an art; more is expected from them, and yes, perhaps "maturity" is an aspect of this. However, it is not the "maturity" you're thinking of, but rather the atmospheric and thematic value befitting a medium looking to gain artistic value. Meaning whether you're blowing up zombies or skipping through lollipop land, there must be a purpose. And there must be meaning.

Don Bluth said that children can handle pretty much anything so long as there's a happy ending, and he's a man responsible for some of the "darkest" children's films of all time. The Secret of NIMH, the Land Before Time, All Dogs Go to Heaven, etc. These films are dark because they deal with death and scary things, however--there is always a reason for these things to be incorporated.

If Star Fox wanted to take darker themes, then it can go ahead, but there is a line between more mature subject matter and seeing how many hundreds of Venomian soldiers you can reduce to a fine meat paste. There has always been more to the content and world than the generic FPS, so it would be disappointing to see it be reduced to such.

I would enjoy more comics; Farewell, Beloved Falco was one of my favourite installments of the series.

I think this is something that most gamers are not getting when they play games. The problem is that some gamers only buy the games BECAUSE of the blood and gore, and when a game has a really deep story, they consider it "gay" or "stupid" because you can't saw a man in half or something like that.

Star Fox could work perfectly with a deeper and more mature story, and it can do that without having a cuss fest or adding gore galore. Even with furry type characters it could work if you did the writing just right. Sadly the only Nintendo games I've played that has had stellar writing would be the Zelda games, so seeing that happen in Star Fox (one of Nintendo's lesser loved franchises) would be pretty slim.

[Thu'um]

i do beilve the game always sorta had a dark side to them, espicaly adventrues and assualt. just playing that up a bit might savice

[Scourge]

Increased maturity level: No.

More depth on the already slightly dark but completely left out story already present, hidden behind the main story: Yes.

The backstory for starfox is one that's probably as dark as nintendo wants it to go, mostly the reason I believe people want this "dark" starfox story is a combination of 2 things:

1: Fanfiction

2: And the backstory mentioned above is so unexplored. it's presented, but completely unexplored with the exception of VERY brief tidbits here and there, it tantalizing to anyone who reads into the series as much as us.

Example: Vixy Reinards death.

[Drasiana]

Star Fox could work perfectly with a deeper and more mature story, and it can do that without having a cuss fest or adding gore galore. Even with furry type characters it could work if you did the writing just right. Sadly the only Nintendo games I've played that has had stellar writing would be the Zelda games, so seeing that happen in Star Fox (one of Nintendo's lesser loved franchises) would be pretty slim.

Game companies are hiring actual screenwriters to do their games now so they're all kind of running out of excuses for the poor quality in some stories :B

[Thu'um]

Game companies are hiring actual screenwriters to do their games now so they're all kind of running out of excuses for the poor quality in some stories :B

its easyer to make a poor game then a fantastic one :/

[Drasiana]

Unfortunately, yes, but since when has making games ever been "easy"? There are plenty of good writers out there...

[Psygonis]

Video game projects aren't run by writers... Games would be better (storyline-wise) but there would be less released (longer and more expensive to make).

[Drasiana]

Uh no

I never said they were "run" by them, but they do hire them. Most games have "writing" credits on them, in case you missed that. These people get hired off of SOMETHING. Even in film writers typically aren't the ones they're dishing out the multimillions to.

[Scourge]

Another one of those "if i ruled the world" moments modern culture, you fail me even in the one area i derive my enjoyment :/

[Psygonis]

I never said you did Dras'!

Project managers hire writers to "make stories" but when it's done... well... not all of it is made as it was thought by the writer(s). That's what I meant.

[Drasiana]

Of course not. The project leader generally starts with the idea that they make the writer transcribe, so they can't necessarily be held responsible for flawed ideas from the get-go, but horrible dialogue and non-functioning story beats are their business. Ex. the writer for Star Fox Assault did not come up with the plot itself, most likely, but Sauria's uselessness and the unresolved, non-gameplay plotlines are their fault.

[Gestalt]

Sooooo, what if instead of adding a bunch of curse words and blood (which would totally detract the value from the series)

we could just focus on the plot.

As it stands now, in a StarFox game you work usually with Cornerian Forces to stop an overwhelming enemy force and in

the end you find yourself fighting the "Big Bad Guy."

Perhaps we can simply turn this structure inside-out, and some shift of power or one fatal mistake that makes the Cornerian

government to turn against StarFox (maybe because Fox has wiped out all that oppose Corneria)

So now the Cornerian Federation no longer needs a "savior." They have increased the military power and stability substantially

and can function on their own.

Now StarFox and StarWolf are the only forces that can stand against Corneria, and the Cornerian Federation wants to change

that.

Wolf and Fox go into exile and their only insider is Bill. It all seems over. This takes an emotional toll on Fox and Krystal's relationship (for better or worse).

Wolf and Fox finally team up and start a new team that never separates.

Now our mission is to run recon on Cornerian bases, bomb Cornerian life-lines, and rally the people of Lylat to liberate the

galaxy from Cornerian rule once and for all- one planet at a time.

Just think...this time Fox is not doing it for the money. He's apart of something much bigger. Its both him and Wolf and a

group of rag-tag rebels fighting for freedom from the iron-clad clutches of Corneria.

Now wrap that up and give it to a baby on Christmas Day...

[Robert Monroe]

Sooooo, what if instead of adding a bunch of curse words and blood (which would totally detract the value from the series)

we could just focus on the plot.

As it stands now, in a StarFox game you work usually with Cornerian Forces to stop an overwhelming enemy force and in

the end you find yourself fighting the "Big Bad Guy."

Perhaps we can simply turn this structure inside-out, and some shift of power or one fatal mistake that makes the Cornerian

government to turn against StarFox (maybe because Fox has wiped out all that oppose Corneria)

So now the Cornerian Federation no longer needs a "savior." They have increased the military power and stability substantially

and can function on their own.

Now StarFox and StarWolf are the only forces that can stand against Corneria, and the Cornerian Federation wants to change

that.

Wolf and Fox go into exile and their only insider is Bill. It all seems over. This takes an emotional toll on Fox and Krystal's relationship (for better or worse).

Wolf and Fox finally team up and start a new team that never separates.

Now our mission is to run recon on Cornerian bases, bomb Cornerian life-lines, and rally the people of Lylat to liberate the

galaxy from Cornerian rule once and for all- one planet at a time.

Just think...this time Fox is not doing it for the money. He's apart of something much bigger. Its both him and Wolf and a

group of rag-tag rebels fighting for freedom from the iron-clad clutches of Corneria.

Now wrap that up and give it to a baby on Christmas Day...

Nobody cares about your fanfiction.

[El Zorro de la Estrella]

Sooooo, what if instead of adding a bunch of curse words and blood (which would totally detract the value from the series)

we could just focus on the plot.

As it stands now, in a StarFox game you work usually with Cornerian Forces to stop an overwhelming enemy force and in

the end you find yourself fighting the "Big Bad Guy."

Perhaps we can simply turn this structure inside-out, and some shift of power or one fatal mistake that makes the Cornerian

government to turn against StarFox (maybe because Fox has wiped out all that oppose Corneria)

So now the Cornerian Federation no longer needs a "savior." They have increased the military power and stability substantially

and can function on their own.

Now StarFox and StarWolf are the only forces that can stand against Corneria, and the Cornerian Federation wants to change

that.

Wolf and Fox go into exile and their only insider is Bill. It all seems over. This takes an emotional toll on Fox and Krystal's relationship (for better or worse).

Wolf and Fox finally team up and start a new team that never separates.

Now our mission is to run recon on Cornerian bases, bomb Cornerian life-lines, and rally the people of Lylat to liberate the

galaxy from Cornerian rule once and for all- one planet at a time.

Just think...this time Fox is not doing it for the money. He's apart of something much bigger. Its both him and Wolf and a

group of rag-tag rebels fighting for freedom from the iron-clad clutches of Corneria.

Now wrap that up and give it to a baby on Christmas Day...

Ooooh, this sounds cool!

I would play the CRAP out of this game!

[unoservix]

y'know, at some point you have to find a way to square "mature, morally ambiguous, dark, violent story" with "characters that look like they walked out of a creepy French orange juice commercial."

it's kind of a laughable juxtaposition, really. the very essence of that "Jorge wants to be hardcore, but his mom won't let him" image brought to life.

[Psygonis]

I do really think that "mature" in Starfox can't be brought by letting Fox say "F**k!" instead of "Dang!" or dressing him with a black leather suit with spikes on it (a bit like what they did to Wolf in Assault... ^^').

Maturity should reflect gameplay-wise, making the player having tough choices, like chasing the badies/saving the civilians-flightmates and such.

[Harmony Descent]

Making a more mature Star Fox? In all honesty, I think it would ruin the franchise for some fans. I mean, if you add all the stuff people are saying in here, I.E. gore, swearing, sexual content, etc., it would only make the franchise start to appear more like games are coming out nowadays. So, what I would ONLY recommend would be have a better screenwriter, like everyone has stated, but add a touch of dark themes.

Personally -- I think a few speak with me on this -- I believe the Star Fox series was meant for too much violence, swearing, blood, guts, etc., etc., but more action overall. Just look at the levels Star Fox has had, with just the boss battles and Arwing preorbital missions in Adventures; you see explosions and laser fire EVERYWHERE with no swearing whatsoever -- neither gore or anything.

To add a last note, flashbacks during cutscenes -- maybe not a lot, but a few to set the mood -- would be a little more interesting than just have the characters speak about their past.

Making a more mature Star Fox? In all honesty, I think it would ruin the franchise for some fans. I mean, if you add all the stuff people are saying in here, I.E. gore, swearing, sexual content, etc., it would only make the franchise start to appear more like games are coming out nowadays. So, what I would ONLY recommend would be have a better screenwriter, like everyone has stated, but add a touch of dark themes.

Personally -- I think a few speak with me on this -- I believe the Star Fox series was meant for too much violence, swearing, blood, guts, etc., etc., but more action overall. Just look at the levels Star Fox has had, with just the boss battles and Arwing preorbital missions in Adventures; you see explosions and laser fire EVERYWHERE with no swearing whatsoever -- neither gore or anything.

To add a last note, flashbacks during cutscenes -- maybe not a lot, but a few to set the mood -- would be a little more interesting than just have the characters speak about their past.

[Gestalt]

I don't think Nintendo would let blood, gore, swearing, & sex fly. So, unless we're going to star a fund-raiser to make a fan-based game ther is NO sense in hoping for it...

Maybe a game chocked-full of action would make the series appeal more to older audiences???

[El Zorro de la Estrella]

Lord O Donnell, on 22 September 2011 - 11:11 PM, said:

I don't think Nintendo would let blood, gore, swearing, & sex fly. So, unless we're going to star a fund-raiser to make a fan-based game ther is NO sense in hoping for it...

Maybe a game chocked-full of action would make the series appeal more to older audiences???

This, and perhaps a more serious story with a solid focus on said story.

Like, take the gameplay of Assualt and add some more mission variety and Arwing levels.

Then, take a story emphasising the relationships of characters and a slightly (only slightly) darker tone. I quite like your idea from earlier O Donell, I think that'd be a perfect game to take the series in a more mature direction.

[Gestalt]

Then, take a story emphasising the relationships of characters and a slightly (only slightly) darker tone. I quite like your idea from earlier O Donell, I think that'd be a perfect game to take the series in a more mature direction.

I've never played Command- I hear there are multiple endings to it...That being said after playing Assault 1000 times an even more darker tone was the only way I could image a new game.

But, If I never live to see the day...maybe I WILL write a fanfic about... :-P

[El Zorro de la Estrella]

I've never played Command- I hear there are multiple endings to it...That being said after playing Assault 1000 times an even more darker tone was the only way I could image a new game.

Agreed on all parts of this.

Assault could've led directly into a somewhat darker game, to grow with the main SF audience (Grew up playing SF64 and Adventures).

I mean, it was all set up for it! Mass destruction and panic due to the Aparoid Invasion. Could've made for an EPIC sequel.

[Gamester699]

Yeah, it might make the ratings better but I don't think its nessecassary. :cool:

[Drasiana]

Assault could've led directly into a somewhat darker game, to grow with the main SF audience (Grew up playing SF64 and Adventures).

It would be the death of the series if their focus was the people who "grew up" with the series.

Assault was pushing it in terms of "darkness". Somehow people keep forgetting the whole "cartoon animal" part of Star Fox.

[Xortberg]

Somehow people keep forgetting the whole "cartoon animal" part of Star Fox.

Just because it's cartoon animals doesn't necessarily mean it can't be dark. Season 3 of Digimon had a pretty intense story full of some freaky, nightmare-fuel parts near the end, and for the most part it effectively told a story with no concrete good or evil. At worst, we had a chaotic neutral program just doing what it was designed to do - that being, destroy everything more advanced than a Tomagachi pet. Including the entire world. Given the fact that Digimon is a franchise that started purely to market a card game about whimsical colorful cartoon monsters, I'd say that's pretty effectively dark.

Not that I'm necessarily saying that SF should try and go dark, really. Just contesting your argument that the "cartoon animal" thing locks it into a genre with no hope of anything else coming of it.

[Drasiana]

Digimon was still somewhat directed at kids. I'm also going by the assumption that "darker" still means "EXTREME GORE AND EXTREME NUDITY AND EXTREME SWEARING LOLOL I'M EDGY" so. Darker in the sense you mentioned could be fine, but I still think Star Fox needs to have an edge of satirical humour to it, being that sort of stuff set the tone for the series.